Thursday, 14 January 2010

The Public Are To Blame If We Lose in Afghanistan

Bill Rammell MP (pictured) has been trying to substantiate our military's deployment in wars because he thinks we, the public, 'will become so risk-averse, cynical and introverted that we find ourselves in inglorious and impotent isolation by default.'

In his speech to the Institute of Public Policy Research, he reflects a growing frustration within the government and armed forces that public tolerance for military operations and media-led cynicism at the motives for British military action are undermining the current effort in Afghanistan.

"... Our adversaries, particularly those who cannot match our military, will attempt to outlast us and hope to say our support at home. This is particularly true of the foe we face in Afghanistan."

So it's all our fault, yours and mine. We're responsible for the mess the government have made of the Afghanistan invasion. We just don't understand he insists.

Mr Rammell, I know this government have done their best to dumb down the level of education in this country, but there are still many with plenty common sense. We don't need a working knowledge of the military to know that their deployment in Afghanistan is nothing to do with the security of Britain. Is propping up a corrupt government the job of our armed forces? No.

Our military do their job on the order of their masters. Their masters are you and your ilk.

This speech is the prelude to your admission of failure regarding Afghanistan. History should have told you that this war would be unwinnable but, for reasons which will become clear in future years, your government insisted our presence was necessary. What little support other countries have given to this conflict is now slipping away and they're planning to withdraw their troops.

'... increasing public cynicism threatened to undermine the ability of British Forces to win in Afghanistan.'

It's despicable you're attempting to blame us for your own inadequacies Mr Rammell. The public support the military and they know that. Can't you see it's you and your government the public don't support? The Iraq Inquiry is already showing us your government's decision-making methods concerning the deployment of our forces and it's not a pretty picture.


banned said...

Rimmel needs to be told that we are not "risk-averse, cynical and introverted " but we are pissed off because our Armed Forces are suffering needless casualties because this appalling Government has committed them to a war without sufficiently resourcing them. Simple.

Was it Blair or deluded Brown who stood in front of the cameras some years ago saying "they can have all the kit they need, if they need helicopters then they shall have helicopters". Yet they are still lieing Rimmel, sort it out.

Catosays said...

banned's first paragraph is bang on the money.

I'm not averse to this country fighting justified wars and if our guys need to go to war then so be it, but they MUST be properly equipped and funded. Anything less is a betrayal.

This war in Afghanistan and the previous exploits in Iraq are and were unjustified and I don't need an arse like Rammell to tell me differently.

subrosa said...

This speech is because they've 'lost' Afghanistan banned and they know it.

It's all their own work and nothing to do with the military.

But they don't want to take the blame, so we're to blame. It's the angle they're going to take when they're pushed into bringing our troops home.

subrosa said...

Very true Cato. If you read the whole speech it's full of how it will be us who will cause our troops to 'fail'. They just don't get it.

The Last Of The Few said...

Thats the problem with us non political classes you see.

Best just keep quiet and .....err...and.......oh yes bury the dead, pay for it through extortionate taxation and keep quiet

Strathturret said...

The issue of military kit is a red herring. My school pal's grandfather was in the machine gun core in WWI and he bought his own bullet proof vest. I believe soldiers have always moaned about their kit and supplemented it themselves.

Its simple. If you invade a country you will suffer casualties. Its not a tragedy, its what happens.

Orwell was right. We twist language. We don't have a Ministry of Defence we have a Ministry of War. The UK soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq are not defending the UK. They are not there with my support and I believe they are ill advised being there. Firstly its dangerous, secondly its futile and thirdly the legality is questionable and they leave themselved open to action for war crimes.

The sooner we de-couple ourselves from the USA the better. It does not matter who the USA elects we will still get war, war, war. We need to let the USA stew in its own juice.

Old Holborn said...

1pm Today

Your chance to tell the cunts what you think. Coincidence? I think not

subrosa said...

Many of the military buy their own kit Strathturret and they're entitled to have a moan about it because it's supposedly taken into their salary account.

Now the US and UK have the warmongering attitude, I doubt they'll let it go easily.

Clarinda said...

What a vile piece of badly and superficially debated toot, where this fellow is accusing the British public of acting as traitors, subotaging the much more intelligent "empathy and understanding" of our elected representatives!

Even with the elephant in the room standing firmly on his foot, this poorly versed chap cannot/will not recognise the problem lies - not with any lack of the public's "understanding" of military rationale and action, but with the utter contempt with which a growing number of the public hold incompetent, untrustworthy, coniving and self-serving politicians. That is where the real "disconnect" between the public and the real culprits of the mess we're in - the MPs - exists. He does, however, give us full marks for showing respect -patronising twerp.

His entire presentation is a good example of denial, projection and misrepresentation which paradoxically fits his own words in willfully descibing his contempt for our current public mood as "politics of fear, spin and soundbite of the worst and most pessimistic variety".

As so many others have said - 'they just don't get it'?

wv - odupe!

Catosays said...

You should read the comments in The Times.

He's getting a new one ripped.

subrosa said...

I've sent my question OH although it won't appeal to the PR boys.

Thanks for the link.

subrosa said...

Clarinda, you do express things so much better than me.

Patronising to say the least but it's a fore-runner to something. Plus of course the link Old Holborn's just given, that's no coincidence.

Fidothedog said...

Now I am sure that the other uber-cock Bob Ainsworth said something like that.

Maybe they might like to look at funding rather than blaming the populace for their failings.

Crinkly & Ragged Arsed Philosophers said...

The man is the lap dog version of a neocon.

An idiot who its not worth commenting on.

In fact his complaint regarding the tolerance of the British people could mere accurately be aimed at the tolerance they afford towards incompetent and mendacious politicians.

Oldrightie said...

Nothing is ever this incompetent and pathetic band of halfwits fault. They just take the money.

Tory Totty Online said...

One of the main aims of this government is to dumb down the population. Just like in the film 1984 (which I watched the other day with some distress.)

They have a penchant for blaming everyone else but their own, incompetent selves.

I only hope I'm around when their day of reckoning comes to pass.

subrosa said...

Fido I'd rather they'd look at their own ineptitude - but of course they don't recognise how incompetent they are, so there's little chance of that.

subrosa said...

Actually I thought that initially Crinkly, then my opinion changed (about the fact he wasn't worth commenting on).

We need to publicise the talk of these incompetents to ensure everyone can see just how useless they are and how they accept no responsibility.

subrosa said...

Aye OR, he does have rather a smart suit on for a third rate politician.

subrosa said...

I hope you are too TT. They're trying very hard to complete their social engineering module of the New World Order brief.

George Laird said...

Dear Subrosa

Rammell is clearly barmy.

The war is lost, the defence budget is getting cut, the navy and RAF asset stripped for the army.

There is no public support of the war but support for the brave soldiers.

The idea that some how lack of public support is stopping defeat of the Taliban is nonsense.

The public support is to get British Troops home.

The guy's a crank for blaming the public about the UK Labour Government's failure.

And it is their failure.

Yours sincerely

George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

subrosa said...

Rammell's speech shows this government won't accept it as their failure but ours George.

We're being 'prepared' by the first throw of what I see will be many guilt trips.

Strathturret said...

Changing tack a wee bit I saw a piece on Scots News today about these aircraft carriers ; you know Jim Murphy announces more good news etc.

Have the contracts for these two carriers actually been signed? I'm a suspicious soul and we seem to get continual announcements about them. I bet this will increase as we get closer to GE.

Of course a strategic defence review post GE might see them cancelled. Clearly the defence budget will be cut by 10-20% and both Unionist parties want to stay in Afghanistan. So something will have to give?

Billy said...

It is all the fault of this Labour government going to war with the US based on a packet of lies.

We are in Afghanistan supposidly because of the terrorists that destroyed the Twin Towers at 911. What terrorists have Direct Energy Weapons? Go to and look at the picture Subrosa and tell me that was terrorists. Time we got our troops home.

subrosa said...

Strathturret, the contracts have been awarded but I can't find evidence that they have been signed.

Yes something will have to give and I think sadly it will be cuts for the Navy and Air Force. Short-sighted.

subrosa said...

Billy, good post at your place. The more I read about 9/11 the more it worries me.

Our troops should be protecting our land not interfering with other countries who have never threatened us.

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