A French No Picnicking sign
Alasdair MacNeill, an enthusiastic student of the '45 and member of A Circle of Gentlemen, the pro-Jacobite society, took his mother on a tour of the battlefield at Culloden.
Perched on top of a mass grave sat a family of four, complete with their two dogs, enjoying a picnic. Mr MacNeill was raging and said it was obvious it was a mass grave. He has since formally complained to the National Trust for Scotland, which is now responsible for the battlefield. The conservation agency has been forced to capitulate from their resistance to getting involved as this is not the first such incident and they are to erect signs reminding visitors that they are at a war grave and to act appropriately.
It's a sad reflection on today's society that people need to be told to show respect for graves. These people must have paid an entry fee to gain access to the battleground so they were fully aware of the mass graves. Strange behaviour indeed.
Source: The Times
Editor's Note: 20.55 Alasdair McNeill has kindly brought my incorrect spelling of his name to my attention so it has now been amended.
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40 comments:
I hope it wasn't one of the selection of party picnic hampers on sale in the Culloden Shop, nestling amongst the Scottish kitsch of luxury body creams and fluffy Loch Ness Monsters, they were enjoying?
Not such "Strange behaviour" these days Subrosa. The lack of respect (and knowledge of history) permeates too much of society - and if the miscreants are corrected you could be accused of harrassment or bullying by having affected their Human Rights?
Shameful, I agree, but nothing new. Let's not forget the 'aristocrats' who sat on a hill with their booze and hampers, merrily watching the Battle of Waterloo.
Good God sir, they've shot my leg off.
Good God sir, so they have.
I heard an interview with the lady who runs the information centre at Culloden - she was English. That's like having a German in charge of the Auschwitz memorial.
As for visitors sitting on graves - I've seen hundrreds of tourists walking all over the graves at Melrose Abbey apparently unaware of the damage they were doing to the stone markers. Some people are just thick.
Oh Clarinda, do you think I'm too late to retract my statement because I certainly don't want to end up in court. :)
I haven't visited since the makeover, but it now sounds like a mini House of Bruar with picnic hampers et all.
Ah Jim right enough, toff's privilege. It still goes on today in the House of Lords.
Scunnert, that doesn't surprise me in the least. I complained to visitscotland a few years ago because I objected to an Australian answering their main switchboard purely on the grounds of it being rather ridiculous when they are supposedly Scotland's main tourist service. I was more or less accused of being racist.
Melrose Abbey should put up notices. It's a favourite of mine and I worked near it when I was young. The locals tried to get signage and proper paths even then - in the 60s.
People just don't think. It's similar when we go to visit our wee boy in the cemetery. The baby section is right at the back and a 6' fence separates the cemetery from a housing estate. Now and again I chase youngsters who climb the fence and run over the graves at the communal section. I shout, "you're jumping about on top off babies, bugger off". Most look sheepish and move on, some shout abuse.
Don't get me started on the selfish, thoughtless bastards who walk their dogs in the cemetery...
@ Scunnert,
Considering that 4 of the 16 Government regiments at Culloden were Scottish (including Highlanders) I do have to wonder where you're coming from on this. Or is it simply a case of ignoring the facts and proclaiming the English as genociders?
Some people should really read the history and not the myth, you'll be telling us Braveheart was a documentary next.
How sad Rab, sorry to hear that. The problem seems to be the kids know there's no security in cemeteries so use it as a playground. Parents aren't teaching them respect either.
With these folks they actually paid to get into Culloden so they knew the history etc. I could never enjoy a picnic on top of a mass grave. Are people less sensitive these days or have there always been such thoughtless individuals? Possibly the latter.
For those of you who have come from Scottish Unionist's blog to read the comments here I want to say I find his lifting of comments, without any notification, quite disgusting and cheap.
His constant attempts to class me and some of my readers as racist is pathetic in the extreme.
My comments are for people to express their views and not to be used for some blogger who is too lazy to post something of structure.
Also I am a supporter of independence not an SNP member. I shall let scunnert speak for himself.
It's Alasdair actually, but never mind. Your support on this issue is what counts. Thank you.
Sorry Alasdair, I'll amend it immediately. I was too fast with the typing because a dear friend spells it the other way.
I see nothing objectionable whatsoever to having an English person on duty at Culloden - I visit it often and know they have people there of a mixture of nationalities. Just as I, a Scot, worked for many years in London - not in any publicly-funded or charitable organisation of course. However I did on a number of occasions, for professional reasons, have occasion to visit a body called "The Council for the Protection of Rural England" whose offices then (and perhaps still, for all I know) were located very prettily on Wimbledon Common and charming and helpful people they were. Likewise I think it rather nice that an Australian should be answering the telephone for VisitScotland; lots of Australians (and new Zealanders) like to come to the 'old country' for a few years after University. Of course I do not share the aims of the SNP, but one of the things I do like in their policy statements is that everyone resident within the borders of Scotland is equal - they don't so far as I am aware have policies based on ethnicity or place of origin within the UK. English people living here should be just as welcome as Scots who live in England mostly are - and I think I can forgive the dislike there amongst some English people of the current master of 10 Downing Street, after all G Brown Esq is not someone I care for either.
As for the question of picnics at Culloden, I'll quote a comment I made yesterday in another Nairn-based blog (written, as it so happens, by an English person resident here) - Brian's article is here:
http://www.mynairn.com/2009/07/15/culloden-battlefield-too-sacred-to-picnic.html
- and my comment there read:
QUOTE
Like a lot of things to do with Culloden, my view is that this whole period of British history is much romanticised.
As someone whose forebears were present at the battle, and who has been a member of the NTS for something like 45 years, it bothers me little that people have chosen to have a picnic there - even if I agree it might perhaps have been rather more sensitive not to have done so on top of one of the mounds and using a headstone clan-marker as a headrest - there are plenty of other green areas there to choose from.
A vignette from my youth - I must have been about 6 at the time - I was taken there by my parents to see ‘our’ mound (a clan loyal to the Jacobite side), very close to the commemorative cairn. As we were leaving a gent dressed head-to-toe in tartan, who said he was visiting from Canada, asked where the Campbell mound was. I thought it sad then, and now, that it was well-away from the other clans and at that time one had to go over a rickety stile and along a boggy, sodden path to get to it, unlike the rest of the site which was perfectly dry (it was a sunny warm day that day, too).
So I think people should be able to picnic there if they want to - although perhaps just a little more sensitive choice of precise location might be warranted.
UNQUOTE
Incidentally I see nothing wrong in people quoting your or your commenters' comments here in their own blog, provided they do so without distortion.
As has been pointed out in 'that other place', Blogger has settings to permit you to run a private, closed blog if that's what you choose to do, then your blog and comments in it would be safe from exposure and comment elsewhere. Until you choose to do so then as far as I'm concerned it's fair game.
Hello Bill, thank you for your comment. When you have been outside Scotland were you representing the country you were in as part of a major publicly funded body?
My argument is that visitscotland is funded by taxpayers and their client group. Why use perhaps a perfectly pleasant and efficient Australian to answe the phone when there are plenty Scottish accents around?
Would you expect to be greeted by a woman in a sari if you decided to visit Gleneagles for a wee holiday? Even although she was Scots born? Would you find it a slight to the Scots culture?
I have Indian friends and they would be horrified if anyone dressed in traditional Indian dress were picked to represent Scotland. (I write this because one phoned me today about the racist slur from SU and was shocked).
I appreciate that you think it's not bad manners for another blogger to quote selectively from the comments of another blog. I disagree. If SU had put the full post then the comments it would have been more appropriate. As it is he did his usual cut and paste job with anyone who supports, in his eyes, the SNP. I've told him repeatedly I'm a supporter of independence first and foremost, but then their are people who have their own agenda and ignore the points of others.
You don't have to tell me how blogger works Bill, but thanks anyway.
If SU had put the full post then the comments it would have been more appropriate.
Very droll. You don't get to tell SU how to run his/her blog, any more than you get to tell me how to run mine, or indeed than he or I get to tell you how to run your own. But there's nothing you can do to stop me or anyone else commenting on your blog in our own blogs, as I have been forced to recognise myself on a few occasions over the past 7+ years when I've made a betise in my own little blog and someone has had a little fun at my expense - just as I'm relieving the boredom of a Saturday evening at your's ;)
I repeat, I see nothing wrong in a person with an Australian accent answering a VisitScotland switchboard. As for me 'representing' Scotland when I was outside the country, I already explained I did not work for either a publicly-funded or charitable orgnanisation; I worked for an organisation owned by shareholders with from all I have ever understood a very wide ownership in terms of the countries of residence of its shareholders, not to mention their different nationalities and ethnic origins (I have been a small shareholder for many years and remain so today and have no intention of ever liquidating that small holding as it has proved very beneficial over the years, even in today's shaky economy).
I may not share his political philosophy, but I consider 'Yapping Yousuf' or that amusing comedian Hardeep Singh Kohli just as Scottish as me, irrespective of whether they happen to be wearing non-standard Scottish clothing - that relates to your comment about the sari-clad lady, as of course Hardeep Singh Kohli always wears a turban. Hardeep Singh Kohli happens to have a Scottish accent, of course, whereas I have no idea about 'Yapping Yousuf', never having met him, but to me it is quite irrelevant, just as it is irrelevant to me if someone at VisitScotland has a Scottish, Australian or for that matter a 'cut-glass' English accent. Surely we should have moved on from this narrow pigeon-holing of people? Obviously not, so far as you are concerned, if I have read you aright.
VisitScotland is a publicly funded organisation Bill. It is a quango there to provide a window on Scotland.
Next you'll be suggesting they show photographs of Australia on their website.
I'm not bored and therefore have little interest is defending your accusation that I pigeon hole people and I am narrow in my thinking. I too remember the Mamas and Papas song about 'the Great Big Melting Pot' and it certainly left an impression on both my friends at that time and myself.
As for blogging, I do try to be respectful to fellow bloggers and if I wish to use part of a post or comments, then I ask permission. Call me old-fashioned but there we are, that's how I operate on here.
If Hardeep had answered the phone at visitscotland, I wouldn't have a clue that he wore a turban or a loin cloth. The accent is what I would, if of another nationality, expect from such an organisation.
I think you're indirectly calling me racist Bill and you're certainly barking up the wrong tree, but I'm not going to argue with you. It's obvious you've made your mind up.
Lastly, I will do my best to preserve the Scottish culture because I am proud of it. Other countries do their best to preserve theirs and I make no apologies for doing the same. If that makes me a racist then so be it.
Visited this thread to see what the fuss was on SU's blog. Only comment that has struk me was Rab's. I am sorry for your loss that must be awful hard losing a wee one. All the best.
I entirely agree with you Observer, a true tragedy for him and his wife.
Pity SU chose to ignore it.
Oh Subrosa - you have stirred up the faint hearted lilly livered liberal crackpots with this post.
QM and Bill: Of course you are absolutely correct - there should be no objections to a German running the Auschwitz memorial - were all Europeans now.
Subrosa - Observer left a wee comment on my blog chastising me and swearing never to comment on my blog again. This is strange as this was the first and only post she has ever made on my blog.
But for her - an Englishwoman - to cast the slur of racist is really too much. This is the woman who wrote on the Herald that Scots should all go back to Ireland and that illegal refugees were Scots too.
I'm rather enjoying this. There's far too much neceness on blogs. We need the cut and thrust of debate. Unfortunately these unionist types (and cringing Scots) prefer ambush to debate.
Cheers
That should read "niceness".
I left a comment on AM2's blog - wonder if it will be moderated?
I have indeed scunnert. Those who have problems with identity/culture seem to be the ones shouting loudest.
It's surprising about Observer - if you read the post above.
I left one too scunnert and I can't be bothered to check whether it has been or not. Much preferred to state my case here.
As for 'niceness' on blogs, I think there is and should be a certain level of etiquette that most bloggers stick with. It kind of sorts out the decent from the indecent. That shouldn't interfere with the cut and thrust of debate of course. You can be well mannered yet stick the knife in at the same time.
In fact, those who do so wield a sharp blade.
Subrosa, I find your comments on here at odds with your own cv ;0)
We need the cut and thrust of debate.
We do, but it is going to have to start from an appreciation of the current legal position.
The fact is, that any citzen of EU member states is entitled to work in any other state and only in limited circumstances can their nationality be used as a bar. The security services, for instance, have a derogation from that general rule.
Any state which wants to extend that rule is going to have to come out of the EU (suits me, but there are arguments either way). For example, the Channel Islands have never become part of the EU and operate their own borders. They have various reciprocal free-movement agreements but there are various protocols whereby Channel Island nationals have priority in certain jobs. The rules vary job to job, but the general effect is that a position won't be offered on the general market until there is no Jersey citizen capable of fulfilling it.
At the moment, Scunnert's very early Godwin infraction is based on not realizing that Germans can, and probably do, work at Auschwitz. The appeal section makes it clear that Germans are generous sponsors. Good. It's taken a long time for them to acknowledge the place exists and it is entirely appropriate that they do so now.
There is also no bar on a German working at, say, the Imperial War Museum at Duxford. Why should there be? The point is to provide a history service to the public and a scholarship resource for historians.
The heritage business which funds scholarship is in any case an exceptionally internationalist one and has been this past 100 years. It's true I wouldn't expect a non-Egyptian to have a directorship at Cairo, but at all the lower levels the primary interest is in how good the staff member is, not where they were born.
Good afternoon Mrs Raft
My post was not about legalities but about sensible decisions being made which protected the Scottish culture.
In my lifetime I've experienced many occasions when, as a Scot, I was informed it was better for my employer that I did not take the lead in representing the company. One example was working for an Italian company in Switzerland. My German was as fluent as theirs but they kindly explained they would, in some situations, prefer an Italian as representative of the company. I fully accepted their decision because I saw it as sensible.
If say you were wanting hotel accommodation in Edinburgh, you weren't too au fait with computers, but you had a guide book. You phoned and reserved your room only to find on your arrival that the room contained a futon instead of a standard European bed. Nobody had warned you, they expected you would know before you reserved and you were too infirm to get in and out of a futon.
Life is about expectation. We are trained at a young age to make instant judgements. Our levels of expectation can be surpassed or diminished.
Any business such as visitscotland is there to promote Scotland first and foremost. I have no problems whatsoever with any nationality working in the organisation. My problem was (it has been corrected for the past few years) with management poorly choosing a very distinctive foreign accent to represent Scotland. As many said at the time (I was amongst thousands of complainers), if Scotland goes down this road, then they may as well put pictures of Australia on their website. Why not - seemed the next logical step.
If someone has the qualifications for a job they should be considered, but also if they're from another country, they should be capable of understanding there may be a few occasions when they may have to briefly stand aside for the good of the company.
Afternoon Stuart
Why you think my comments are at odds with my own CV I have no idea. Can you give me an example? I didn't realise I'd ever produced a CV in recent years.
I left a post on Scunnerts blog out of courtesey to him because I don't like talking about people behind their backs. I see he has responded by designating me as an Englishwoman and misquoting a post which was made on the Herald years ago. That is rather unfortunate, however that is the only response he will get from me, and I apologise to subrosa for intruding onto her blog.
As none of my highland lot took part in the 15/45 risings, and were very content to have the Jacobites and Government forces knock seven bells out of each other - I find the concentration on the Heathery History of Scotland a bit of a cringe anyway.
As to Australian accents fronting VisitScotland I'm not really surprised given the subversion and marginalisation of established Scottish history, culture and literature within schools and MSM. It is perhaps a sad reflection that outsiders appreciate our tradition and potential more than many indigenous Scots?
Must give VisitFrance a tinkle and listen to the accent of who ever answers - I doubt it will be an accent from Ulan Bator?
To those limited to the dizzy heights of attempting to line up two peas in a straight row - this is nothing to do with your trumped up charge of racism - but everything to do with honouring and promoting your own nation and its attributes by attracting all other nationalities to visit - hardly racist!
Hello Subrosa, I didn't mean your cv literally but your work history, as alluded to in your post above mine. I think people will find your comments at odds with having worked in the tourist sector abroad, despite what you say about stepping aside when cultural sensitivities required it.
In the case above you cited the language problem, which seems fair enough, but there wasn't a language problem per se with the Australian or the hypothetical (?) Inian at Gleneagles, presumably; it was per se the problem of not being a native of Scotland?
Stuart, I think you know exactly what I mean and are trying to expand my choice to words into something to suit those who like to insinuate anyone who wants to protect their culture and look after their ain folk has some serious underlying issues.
I disagree with you saying Australians speak the same as Scots. It's not true, their language is similar but not the same. Their language is as distinctive as Scots and I'm quite sure many would be upset to think they weren't recognised first and foremost as Australians.
There are certain jobs in any country which, only if there is nobody qualified and suitable to do it in the indigenous population, then someone from another country should be considered.
I'm old enough to realise my point of view is dated but I'm sticking to it. It's this thawnness which has, to date, kept the protection of Scottish culture to the fore of the country, but I can see when I'm long gone that Scotland will become part of the great big melting pot. Our culture will vanish into the mists of time and be overtaken by the fashionable one of the day.
Possibly by that time you may be nearer my age and realise then how strongly I felt today. Age does allow you the time to see certain things, because the young are too busy making history not observing it.
Hello Clarinda. Thank you for your support. I see you understand my view and no matter how I express it there are a few hell bent on a racist slur.
Never mind, I'm old enough and tough enough to cope. Come to think of it, I've perhaps been called a lot worse in my time!
I just do wish people could differentiate between cultural protection and racism. As I said to Stuart, I'll be long gone before they waken up.
Oh, one matter springs to mind. These people who love to slur others - I wonder if they are the same people who shout loudly because their ISP/BT/bank/utility company has their call centre in a far off land and they're not understood, even of course if the operator speaks perfect English. Just a thought.
Observer, you're not intruding in the least. I'm sad to hear about your misunderstanding. Obviously it's up to him to make amends.
Oh Stuart, I'm surprised you're not accusing me of racism when I say we ought to be able to renew our passports in our own country.
Very quiet on the comments there. It suggests to me that some people are fair weather racist hunters.
I thought this post is about having respect for the dead? Sad to see it being hi-jacked by the 'professionally offended on the behalf of' mob, as well as the 'cheap shot' brigade.
Anyway, thanks for your kind words subrosa and observer.
I doubt if any words could be kind enough Rab.
Yes it has been hi-jacked with Scottish Unionist taking the comments between scunnert and myself, posting them on his blog and implying we are racist without actually using the word. Coward really.
Those that shout words ending in 'ist' and 'phobe' have nothing of interest to say, nor a decent point to make. Regardless if said straight out or inferred.
Perhaps one day I will write a blog post about what we went through at that terrible time, my wife is expecting again but all is not straightforward once more.
Intensive care and major surgery is expected for the wee one, however there is a lot more hope this time. All we can do is remain positive.
Anyway, I digress....
You may digress Rab but I would appreciate if you kept me up to date by email. It's on the right hand side bit.
I doubt I can be of help of I know a few of my readers may be, so please keep me up to date.
My thoughts are with you both and I promise I shall never publish or copy any of your comments or emails without your permission.
When you think it's time, it may be good for you to post your experiences, but don't do it in a political vein, do a guest blog with people who are aware of child deaths.
I hate to say it but many political bloggers have no interest in life issues but there are exceptions of course.
Oh Rab, on a completely different subject I do hope you've printed off the Courier article re Morrisons in Arbroath.
What is it they say - more grease to your elbow? I can't remember but do go for it. you've nothing to lose.
In 1981 I tried to 'phone a friend in Glasgow. He had moved and his number was no longer in service. So I 'phoned overseas directory and got put through to an operator in Toronto. I explained I was trying to track down a friend in Scotland. I was put through to Glasgow. I explained my friend had moved and I thought was most probably in the Borders. After being put through to half a dozen wee towns I finally made contact.
Some years later I tried to 'phone an Outward Bound school in Loch Eil as I wanted to arrange a trip there for one of my daughters. I 'phoned overseas directory and was put through to a Caribbean lady in Montreal. She had difficulty understanding me but finally put me through to London. There I was greeted by an other Caribbean lady who could not find Loockeel in the directory. After 20 minutes I gave up.
I don't know what it's like in Scotland now but here in Canada most products or services that offer telephone support connect to India when you call. Canadians are livid.
I understand that India has been processing the UK's benefit claims forms for many years now?
A global village - aye.
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