Friday, 19 September 2014

Jam Tomorrow - Maybe

We lost. Considering we were around 25% only a couple of months ago the increase of 20% is a tremendous achievement, but the - perhaps fixed - Times poll in the last ten days changed the momentum.

I say ‘perhaps fixed’ because it’s been suggested Murdoch, who has such a grievance with the Westminster government, used the campaign for revenge.

Scotland has been promised new powers not later than March next year.  I won’t be holding my breath.

One thing I’m sure of is that this is not the end of the battle for independence for Scotland. It will continue.

Now it’s time for a couple of hours sleep. 


Dioclese said...

You have my genuine sympathies Rosie. It seems to me that 'Project Fear' was aptly named.

If I had been voting, I would have voted Yes but as an Englishman I would have done it for truly selfish reasons. I don't want Miliband as the next PM. Even Boris would be better than that - and that really is saying something.

As you say, let's see what the jam turns out to be. My bet is that they'll fudge the issue until after next May...

Quiet_Man said...

Truly a shame as Dioclese said. Just remember manifesto promises are not subject to legitimate expectations thanks to Gordon Brown and an infamous court case. I would not expect Westminster to keep its word either.

JimS said...

My aunty thanks those of you who were sensible enough to follow her advice! You have saved the whole of the union from the economic disaster that would have surely followed any break up.
It will be interesting to see what will happen to the 'positivity' that the 'Yes' campaign generated - I suspect it was more akin to the 'excitement' of the seagulls following the plough, or more appropriately jumping on a discarded fish supper - they thought they were going to get something for free.
Edinburgh, Westminster, I think you would have found them pretty much the same. What we need is real 'positivity' and that will never come from the Socialist/Marxists that rule Brussels, Westminster and Edinburgh - they thrive on self-destruction and victim-hood.
I hope the wounds within Scotland and the wider union created by Salmond and his national socialist blue shirts can be healed but who is up to the job?

P.S. I think your jam is conserve, it looks too 'runny' to me!

William said...

It is hilarious to read the Yessers trying to talk up their failed campaign - 'we were only 25% a few months ago' when they were denying the polls all along and claiming they had momentum! Now they are claiming they have momentum after they've lost!

It also doesn't occur to them that people voted No for reasons nothing to do with 'fear' but because they want to be part of the United Kingdom.

Face facts. You got to ask your stupid question with the wording of your choosing, at a time of your choosing with the backing of the party in power and you still LOST.

JRB said...

I must confess my disappointment – I freely admit we lost; we were defeated; it did not go our way

So for those of a less than magnanimous nature or who simply wish to rub it in – feel free, have your day, go ahead and gloat.

But every right minded individual of whatever persuasions has come away with a common and irrevocable conclusion …
- that politics in Scotland has experienced an irreversible sea change.
- that there has been an unprecedented engagement in politics throughout Scotland, as represented by the turnout, which has taken Westminster by storm.
- that all Scots, regardless of how they voted will now demand, as promised by the three major parties, that the additional devolved powers are honoured in the timescale promised.
- that the rest of the United Kingdom and its regions now recognises that devolved power and constitutional change is the future.

And a personal confession – I was agin youngsters getting the vote when it was first muted; but having listened to younger family members and attended debates in local schools – I am so impressed by the maturity, depth of thought and ability to express themselves – that I am now convinced they should be granted the vote for every election.

Disenfranchised of Buckingham said...

As an Englishman I blame most things on the Scots and Welsh having to many MPs (almost all "commies"). Iraq war for example? Blair and Scots votes.

The conservative in me says don't touch the union. The politician in me would not have been upset if YES had won.

subrosa said...

Thanks Dioclese. It was a difficult struggle with everything plus the kitchen thrown at us.

It’s really an own goal because all we’ve worked for is devolution for England.

If I was still in England I’d do the same as you.

subrosa said...

What a missed opportunity QM, one that many English would have grabbed with both hands if it had been an offer of English independence.

subrosa said...

What to mean to say JimS is that ‘Thanks for being stupid enough to refuse the offer of taking responsibility for yourselves. We can now merrily continue to spend your oil money to improve the lives of those of us south of Watford’.

It took me some time to find an image of thin, runny jam JimS.

subrosa said...

William, the fact is that Salmond wanted the ‘Devo Max’ question on the paper but Cameron said no. You’re memory’s worse than mine.

Yes William, we lost - for now. Soon my fellow countrymen will realise that all their work has been for England not Scotland.

By the way, don’t gloat. It’s very unbecoming.

subrosa said...

After watching the youngsters TV debate and some other television clips I too was impressed by our 16-17 year olds.

There are a few good results from it JRB. One was the above and another the extent of interaction.

What did surprise me was the Glasgow turnout. Where were the other 25%? Strange one. Maybe they were labour voters who couldn’t bring themselves to vote against their masters.

Joe Public said...

Maybe next time, the Scots will insist the English vote too.

William said...

You haven't lost 'for now', SR. You've lost for good. If you can't get a Yes vote against a Tory government in Westminster in a referendum of your choosing with 2 years of steam behind you and the ruling party in power behind you then you'll never get it. Accept it and move on.

JRB, people are inevitably going to feel more engaged in a referendum than they would in a multi-party election. That is the nature of it. I do agree that we should have more referendums to allow further engagement by the public. I look forward to the SNP having 3 in the near future, simply to start us off - whether to bring back the death penalty, whether to abolish same-sex marriage, whether to leave the European Union. As the SNP are so keen on addressing the 'democratic deficit', I feel sure they will embrace these.

charles said...

I suspect Salmond deliberately played to lose. To have no currency plan or believable plan to join the EU when he knew these would worry voters is out of character for a clever politician. He now has more power with no responsibility and I am afraid he has lead the voters of Scotland a merry dance.

Joe Public said...

So Salmond quits. Kudos for him walking the plank so quickly after defeat.

His crowning glory was to pit 1.6m of his brethren against 2m of his brethren; and, alienate untold millions of the RUK against those 1.6m.

He's cost the UK (& that includes the Scots) £millions of lost productivity.

But he's got a nice fat pension to look forward to.

Crinkly & Ragged Arsed Philosophers said...

This is a black day for Scotland made darker by Salmond's resignation.

But to the victor, the spoils; and they're welcome to the whole 2 million of them.

Alice Moore said...

There are some things to celebrate. For sixteen and seventeen years I believe they have proved their case and must surely have the right to vote in other elections.

The high turn out has engaged the Scottish people in political debate after years of slumber. Unfortunately the Doomsday scenario will continue. The United Kingdom is hanging together by threads, so undemocratic, that it cannot hold together indefinitely.

Regionalisation of the UK in a stronger Europe? Has that been the plan all along? I can`t make up my mind at the moment. But Scotland is awake. It`s not going back to sleep any day soon.

Woodsy42 said...

"It’s really an own goal because all we’ve worked for is devolution for England."

In that sense SR, yes you may have helped us south of the border. However it's not an own goal. Why does it matter who leaves who when there is a breakup? Both sides will gain some independence.

JRB said...

Well. Friday 19th September 2014 has been quite a day!!!
• The people of Scotland voted ‘No’ to independence
• Alex Salmond the charismatic leader of the SNP and of the failed ‘Yes’ campaign does the honourable thing and falls on his sword
• Nazi saluting skin headed thugs of the extreme right pro-union Scottish Defence League run amuck through the streets of Glasgow
• The pledge of further devolved powers if a ‘No’ vote, given by Westminster’s three political leaders is already showing signs of coming apart at the seams, less than twelve hours after the result. (This must surely be the record for the quickest failed promise by any politicians)

Better Together – Really?

Nessimmersion said...

Extending the vote to 16/17 yrs old was a cynical attempt to get the most unwise or low information voters to vote yes.
Similarly there is a visible trend between educational level/ income level and tendancy to vote no.
So all the neverendum has achieved has been a cynical distraction away from the need to decentralise all decision making.
One of the worst bunch of centralisers have been the numpties in holyrood, what scotland needs is fiscal & decision making responsibility at local level. Until we et swiss canto levels of local responsibility, we are doomed to have a disconnect between voters and professional politicians. Look at how many elected bodies norway has for example.
Before we blame westminster remember exactly who it was that set up Transport scotland, police scotland, fire scotland etc etc etc, all in an attempt to rule from the centre & politicise a whole swathe of social functions in an attempt to swing a vote.

Ian said...

Has anyone seen this ? SCOTLAND INDEPENDENCE VOTE RIGGING EXPOSED ? Smoking Gun Evidence of Vote Being Rigged ?

Demetrius said...

A Kilner Jar? Jeremy Clarkson is from that Kilner family in his near ancestry. Are you a fan?

William said...

I appreciate that you specialise in spouting shite, JRB, but even by your standards this is exceptional.

The Yessers are no shrinking violets - as proven by the various acts of intimidation and violence they've been involved with in this campaign. They were no innocent in George Square either. The police should have moved both camps on much earlier in the day and only they can explain why they didn't.

The question was 'should Scotland be an independent country' and the resounding answer was NO. The Yessers don't get to claim a No vote as a Maybe Yes vote and start whining for more powers. They lost. Accept it.

Anonymous said...

£1,600 extra per head if you're Scottish, in benefits etc?

You can forget that.

People are already pulling their money out of there, I certainly have.

All you've done is wake up John Bull.

JimS said...

I think we have ALL been very lucky and our politicians shown to be either incompetent or working to a secret agenda to destroy us all.
Clearly no risk analysis had been done before the referendum, at the very least it should have been obvious that Yes/No don't carry the same weight in any campaign.
Salmond claimed that the pound was 'our pound', well he was certainly right in the period before formal break-up of the union. Given a 'Yes' win the pound would have gone down the tubes and that would have hit EVERYONE.
The modern world runs on 'confidence' as much as anything else. The 'Yes' campaign produced a lot of (ephemeral? *) self-confidence in Scotland, but it isn't self-confidence that counts, its the confidence that the rest of the world has in us that brings cheap loans, inward investment and trade co-operation. Excessive self-confidence looks too much like self-delusion.
But then I'm like all those residents who voted 'No' who had jobs and mortgages and were looking after their own self-interests when there could have been a Socialist Utopia where all needs are satisfied and those like our host's accoster on benefits need never work!
All of this to be paid for by oil! Now maybe it's the Scots Protestant in me but offshore oil, while not being an ill-gotten gain certainly has not been earned and shouldn't be the wealth that allows 'everyone' to be idle.
Again what about the risks? Oil is offshore, title to it could change at any time, it could easily become EU oil, much as North Sea fish is EU fish, (best of luck re-negotiating that treaty against Spain, France, Holland, Belgium, Sweden and Germany and with Italy, Greece etc. bought-off by other deals!). Oil is traded on the world market, its price is set externaly. Production costs are high. The difference is ALL that is left for profit and tax. It just needs the Saudis to drop their price a little and that margin has gone; no production, no tax. Of course it's not beyond the Euro-nutters to put an embargo on EU fossil fuel production either!
Real risks but all mitigated because everyone can sing 'Flower of Scotland'. I just hope the real divisions that been created within Scotland can heal AND the new divisions that have been created within the rest of the UK as they realise that Scotland's residents could have brought us all down don't grow any greater.
All for one man's vanity.
[* If 'Scotland' is so self-confident why can't it be 'great' now, what stopped it in the past?]

JimS said...

A nice summary.

John Redwood on a 'more equal Scotland':
"I learned from the campaign that according to the Scottish government Scotland is a rich country and has values that wish to share those riches around fairly. I look forward to them showing how this can be done within the UK now that we have decided we are better together."

Billy Carlin said...

My My! Such ignorance in the comments on here - There was NO independence on offer in this referendum as Salmond and the SNP were going to take us straight into the EU after they got a Yes vote - that is why I did not vote in this farce.

The Elites would have won either way and they are now going ahead with their plans to split England up into 9 Regions ready for when the entire country is subsumed into the United States of Europe and Euro which has been the plan all along. 85% of our laws come from the unelected commissioners of Europe and in about a months time they will be signing a treaty to take away the rest so not be too long before Westminster is surplus to requirements which is also part of the plan.

There would not have been many people voting no if the SNP had exposed the massive corruption being carried out by all of the unionists parties and had let the people know about the solutions exposed here:

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