What an interesting few days. In case anyone has been living in a Hebridean cave for the past 48 hours, the news is that UKIP have secured a seat in the Scottish European elections.
On social media the left-wing of Scottish politics are shaking their heads in disbelief, whilst those who voted UKIP are labelling racist and the new MEP called ‘a racist, pinhead, hate-mongering fascist’. Few take the trouble to investigate the reasons why so many voted UKIP - insults are so much easier aren’t they?
Alex Salmond blamed the BBC for beaming extensive coverage of Nigel Farage into Scottish homes. He’s quite obviously hell-bent upon completely alienating the UK voting 10.4% of the population with such a stupid remark.
For years I’ve been suggesting the SNP change their policy on the EU and that there was a considerable amount of the electorate who also thought the SNP’s rigid stance on the EU was unacceptable. The least Alex Salmond could have done was offer the people an In/Out referendum on EU instead of dismissing the pleas, whilst stating UKIP was an irrelevance north of the border.
Some senior Tory and Labour strategists said they thought this was a major error as they believed some of their supporters had subsequently voted tactically for UKIP to give Mr Salmond a political bloody nose ahead of the referendum campaign. I disagree. I suggest the majority who voted UKIP were voters who are strongly anti-EU and had nowhere else to go, because the SNP wouldn’t listen to their protests.
Will this result have any effect upon the independence referendum? Who knows. It appears David Coburn - the new UKIP MEP - is keen to be part of the Better Together campaign. That could work in the Yes campaign’s favour as it may sway some floating voters towards a Yes vote, but Alex Salmond and his party will have to stop insulting UKIP voters and begin to understand not every Yes supporter is content to be corralled into the EU without their voice being heard. It’s called democracy.
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19 comments:
Shouldn't Alex Salmond have learnt the Cameron v Farage lesson? I think it was Norman Tebbit that said that a shopkeeper doesn't win business by abusing those that pass by!
Pundits who say the electorate 'thinks' are talking rubbish - the electorate are individuals who make their own choices based on partial information, there is no collective 'hive' voting.
Maybe we need something like those on-line 'which party are you?' systems where we tick issues and the winner is the candidate with the most matches? That way Alex Salmond might win the vote but be told that most of his followers don't want the EU OR Independence, that would be fun!
Well done that man and the UKIP voters in Scotland (twice as many as in 2009) who didn't believe the slurs and who recognise the dangers of continued EU membership.
And likewise, I don't think it was anything other than a vote for UK independence. That's why I have been voting UKIP for years.
Salmond, like his mainstream counterparts in Westminster, are (I believe) specially chosen for their treasonous adoration of the EU, so of course, like Cameron, he'd rather spit venom on us than engage in civilised dialogue, because he knows that when all the facts are on the table, he might just lose.
I posted this comment on the Whitefeather Club, but I would like to repost it here, as it is relevant to your post:
"I totally agree with your post here. Far too much of the pro-Independence blogosphere represents the centre-left congratulating itself on its moral superiority (a weakness to which it is prone), and demonising its enemies (again, a fundamental flaw in its Manichaean, bipolar good-versus-evil world view). This is not helped by the total conflation of “right-wing” with “unionist” thanks to the Conservative Party. There is effectively no pro-independence option for Scots who are not on the left.
I want to see an independent Scotland, but I am by no means convinced that switching ultimate control from London to Brussels is a positive development. I was not impressed by the actions of the EU in displacing the democratic governments in Rome and Athens, and replacing them with pro-EU technocrats to impose austerity, nor with the arrogance of the Franco-German axis over the years in its approach to small states. Norway and Switzerland do well enough outside the EU, and so would we.
I had thought of voting UKIP, but decided that the party carried too much baggage of oddballs, and more than a whiff of Scottish anti-Catholicism (the one acceptable form of racism – for it is ultimately anti-Irish – in Scotland, as has been shown by the despicable silence meeting the treatment of Neil Lennon).
I voted SNP, but it does not follow that my vote represents a ringing endorsement of the EU. I decided that it was my only realistic option, and the higher the SNP vote, the less able the BBC et al would be to portray the election results as a pointer to a No vote in September."
I love Europe; I love the people of Europe I love their diversity, their culture, their cuisine, their joie de vivre.
but …
I am totally agin the malignancy that is the EU. For like any malignant growth if left un-checked it will merely grow and grow to the point where it ultimately brings about not only its own unpleasant demise but that of its innocent host.
but, again …
As an innocent Scot where do I go?
For many a year I have longed for an Independent Scotland, but all that I am being offered is one bound ever more tightly to that accursed EU. Frying-pans and fires is all that springs to mind.
but what of UKIP …
It too wishes to be out of Europe, but that is about all we have in common.
It has become a party that is spiteful, vindictive and bullying in its politics, praying on the basest of people’s fears.
so …
Like FergusMac "I voted SNP, but it does not follow that my vote represents a ringing endorsement of the EU"
JimS I notice in the press that Alex Salmond, in Rutherglen yesterday, was insisting the UKIP vote was nothing to do with the EU. He’s still not listening.
Now that would be a good idea!
Where I disagree with you Stewart is when you say it was a vote for UK independence. I think a good percentage of UKIP voters will vote Yes in our referendum but are very anti-EU and where it’s going.
Excellent contribution FergusMac. Thank you.
We’ve been down this road many times JRB and still the SNP ignores us.
I agree UKIP prays on people’s fears but don’t all politicians? That’s how they keep control.
Indeed, S/R. I don't disagree with your analysis.
I do disagree with JRB's,
"It [UKIP] has become a party that is spiteful, vindictive and bullying in its politics, praying [sic] on the basest of people’s fears."
And yes S/R, the SNP ignores you because the leadership is bought and paid for like all mainstream party hierarchies.
Independence outside the EU should make Scotland vastly better off and worth voting for, but inside we'll be a very minor EU 'state' and bled dry economically and legislated to death, so why vote SNP at all? They won't do us any good. Their indypretendence is a vanity project for Salmond.
Re. JRB, the 'fears' UKIP exposes are very real and they don't go nearly far enough in expressing the true horror of what awaits us if we stay in the EU much longer.
Not sure what you mean by claiming they are "spiteful, vindictive and bullying". UKIP are sometimes violently bullied in Scotland by our seemingly above-average brainwashed morons.
As for spite, the mainstream parties and media look for the minutest perceived flaw in any tweet from thousands of prospective UKIP councillors, while ignoring the heinous goings on within their own ranks, like the paedophilia.
It's an interesting dilemma for the Scots. How does one vote if one wants independence but does not want to be part of the EU?
Having secured independence from rUK, how independent would Scotland be once it joined the EU? We are told that the bulk of legislation at Westminster emanates from the EU, so this would presumably apply equally for an independent Scotland within the EU.
My instinct suggests that Scotland would have less independence than it has now if it joins the EU. An independent Scotland would not be of sufficient importance to be able to "pull strings" and would be regarded by Brussels merely as another minor state along with countries like Estonia and Latvia.
Certainly a dilemma for those wanting real independence!
As an expat who won't be allowed to vote I was surprised and slightly amused by UKIP's Scottish success. As a very interested spectator I am dismayed to see so much emotional rather than rational argument by "Yes" supporters. For example, it seems that many people were even more determined to vote "Yes" when it was stated that an independent Scotland couldn't continue using the pound Sterling. Some of the vitriol being heaped on those who dare to argue with them would be more at home in the school playground. It seems one of the main reasons many people give for their intention to vote "Yes" is to escape from English/Westminster/Tory rule which doesn't give priority to Scotland's interests. Fair enough but, with Scotland having under 10% of the UK population, that's almost inevitable. Residents of some of the English regions could use the same argument. An independent Scotland would have an much smaller percentage of the total EU population. At present about 70% of UK laws originate in Brussels and with closer integration that will increase. How, then, can Mr Salmond argue that independence from the UK would give Scotland a bigger say in managing its own affairs? My income tax office is Cumbernauld. Will the rUK government allow a foreign government to administer its citizens' tax affairs? If not, what will happen to the Cumbernauld HMRC staff and those in similar UK government offices? If an independent Scotland joined the EU they would have to join the Schengen Convention as required under the 1999 Amsterdam Treaty. The UK has an exemption from this requirement. If the UK were to leave the EU would I thereafter have to produce my passport to go home to Scotland? Would I be allowed to have dual nationality? Lots and lots of questions, some important some trivial, but so few reasoned answers.
If two thirds of Scotland's electorate did not vote leaving a disproportionately promoted UKIP via the UK media to achieve 3% of Scotland's electoral potential - it is perhaps more the failing of the missing two thirds rather than the distinct minority of UKIP voters that should concentrate our thoughts.
I am much more concerned about the stated claims of what marginal interest Scottish interests are to UKIP than their EU isolationism. Those of us who support Independence ought to concentrate on Independence first and not get tangled up in UKIP issues in Scotland which many consider were manipulated by a very strong anti-independence media and Westminster to divert and split those who have a genuine EU concern from voting SNP in the recent EU elections.
I will be fascinated to see how Mr Coburn will promote Scottish interests or will it be a hollow representation with his time taken in Better Together actions as he claims.
We should also investigate whether many of the alleged EU 'interference' etc. are more to do with the managerial, bureaucratic obsessions of UK central and local government and our UK majority unionist MEPs rather than the EU itself?
Personally I'm happy to leave you Scots to decide your own future - and genuinely wish the best to you in your choice.
But as an outside observer I fail to understand how leaving the UK and leaping into an even cozier bed with the EU affords you any sort of real independence.
Just as the UK was wrenched from its close commonwealth ties by the EU you will be wrenched from a working and close union with the rest of the UK and into what may well become a slowly disintegrating EU.
Clarinda might find EU Competencies helpful.
Article 3 competencies have already been given away and Article 4 competencies are theirs to take. So if the EU had decided we are having HS2 we are having HS2.
While it is undoubtedly true that Westminster civil servants lobby for the extension of EU competencies I don't see why Edinburgh should be any different. Doesn't a legislature or administrative body justify its existence by making new laws and rules?
It is a pity that the people of the EU, let alone the UK or even Scotland know so little of the extent of EU competencies. A lot of 'local' (as in UK/Scotland) squabbles are beyond our politicians control now anyway. Should we have privatised the Post Office? (No choice - EU Postal Directive) - Should we label Halal meat? (Not for us to decide - EU 'single market' packaging directives).
Clarinda might find EU Competencies helpful.
Article 3 competencies have already been given away and Article 4 competencies are theirs to take. So if the EU had decided we are having HS2 we are having HS2.
While it is undoubtedly true that Westminster civil servants lobby for the extension of EU competencies I don't see why Edinburgh should be any different. Doesn't a legislature or administrative body justify its existence by making new laws and rules?
It is a pity that the people of the EU, let alone the UK or even Scotland know so little of the extent of EU competencies. A lot of 'local' (as in UK/Scotland) squabbles are beyond our politicians control now anyway. Should we have privatised the Post Office? (No choice - EU Postal Directive) - Should we label Halal meat? (Not for us to decide - EU 'single market' packaging directives).
mmmmmm well the words on the ballot paper are do you wish Scotland to be an independent country
IF or ONCE we are independent THEN after the first election in an independent Scotland we will get the government we vote for.
IF the EU is a BIG issue I am sure that will be resolved in a democratic way at the ballot box.
Don't get distracted.
There is only one thing that matters and that is for the YES vote to win the referendum vote.
Then we have a future in OUR OWN HANDS
Thank you JimS - I'm aware of the EU Competences.
I am also concerned that having only 6 minus 1 MEPs (at the moment) to directly represent Scotland's interests - we have a democratic deficit in comparison with other similar national EU populations. I'm not daft enough not to realise that even with Independence Scotland will still be a 'small' member state (having perhaps 13 MEPs)but our natural, manufactured and human resources are powerful allies to augment our potential influence. I'm not aware of many perfect systems or processes but often it's the quality not the quantity that really matters.
I totally agree with you that many in most electorates cling too often to family tradition or incomplete understanding and find their beliefs loosely ratified in selected bites from whatever source they subjectively prefer. There are few absolute entry qualifications to vote and being fully informed is not one of them.
I suppose that, on the whole, I agree
with your core point, but I don't
think UKIP are a good thing, even if
they provide an outlet for those who
are unhappy with the EU. Too many
nutters. I also think that a lot of
misinformation is peddled about the EU
and that some UKIP voters have
swallowed it whole without much real
evidence. That said, opposition to any
power clique (even if it is one I
happen to agree with) is usually a
good thing - for a whole variety of
reasons... When all is said and done,
though 'Yes is the answer...' (John
Lennon said that - and he's dead, so
there!) Den
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