Monday, 28 January 2013

Calm Down Dear

"What is wrong with the SNP and its adoration of the EU?" a friend of mine asked this weekend.  I was reluctant to answer.  The friend then explained they had family in Ireland and they'd witnessed the way in which the EU had beaten the Irish into submission prior to their last referendum.  "The bribery and threats were accepted by our politicians who left the voters nowhere to turn."

The past week or so Nicola Sturgeon has appeared to be obsessed with the prospect of an independent Scotland being a full member of the EU.  

Articles, such as this one, openly display the SNP's desperation to belong to another bureaucracy whilst insisting they do not want to be controlled by that other bureaucracy - Westminster.

It makes no sense.  Worse still, Ms Sturgeon's letter states the SNP want 'more ambitious EU targets on carbon emissions ...'. Further more she says the Scottish Government does not support David Cameron's 'promise' of an in/out referendum on the UK's membership.

Does she not realise people are awakening to the global warming and carbon credits scams?  Is she not aware that more and more people want a referendum on the EU because they don't believe Scotland should jump out of the frying pan into the fire.  Other countries manage to trade with the EU without being full members and thrive.

The more Nicola Sturgeon promotes the EU as being utopia for an independent Scotland, the more voters will decide to vote 'No'.  It won't be the economy, our security systems, nuclear weapons on the Clyde or immigration policies which will sound the death knell of a 'Yes' vote, but the SNP's insistence that politicians in a independent Scotland must have seats and influence in the EU. 

As the late Michael Winner said, "Calm down dear". Showing your adulation for the EU is not everyone's cup of tea.  I for one find it oppressive.


pa_broon74 said...

So after voting Yes in 2014, don't vote for the SNP.

The vote in 2014 by its indication could be described as being party political, but the outcome certainly isn't.

At this stage, conflating party policy with constitutional choice will do more damage than Sturgeon writing letters to the EU (which they seem to ignore anyway.)

It seems to me, since being in the EU is widely accepted as part of the 'status quo', if the SNP are trying to win those votes, then they have to make these sorts of noises, those who don't like them can vote with their, ummm, vote?


Hamish said...

The democratic path would be a referendum after the independence vote on whether Scotland should apply for EU membership or not.
The rest of the UK should have a similar referendum.
[BTW SR, I think it should probably be either Ms Sturgeon or Mrs Murrell.]

Joe Public said...

1. "... The SNP's desperation to belong to another bureaucracy whilst insisting they do not want to be controlled by that other bureaucracy - Westminster. "

Frying pan & Fire spring to mind.

2. There is still the presumption that the EU would accept Scotland into the club; and, if it did, what the Entrance Fee would be.

Captain Ranty said...

Joe, they'll pretty much take anyone.

I have said this all along: what is the point in getting rid of the Westminster chains only to slip into something less comfortable?

It's insanity.

If I knew that Scotland would avoid the EU at all costs I would vote for independence today.

Scotland in the EU would have citizens enslaved than ever.


Captain Ranty said...

That should read: MORE enslaved than ever...

JRB said...

Very well said Subrosa.

How I hope that those who hold sway or influence within the ‘Yes’ campaign and similarly those within the SNP pay carefully and diligent attention to your comments.

As for me, my life has now been thrown into total turmoil and chaos.

For I loath, abhor, detest, am radically opposed to all that modern Conservatism stands for.
But now Mr Cameron, the leader of the insidious Conservative Party, has gone and thrown me the very life-line that I so desperately seek – an In/Out vote on the EU.

O Me Miserum - what am I to do?

Lord Monty said...

The SNP have said there will be negotiations to join the EU from 2014 to 2016 after a 'Yes' vote on independence. No chance of us having a say on the matter.
We should be having more local democracy rather than giving up our freedom to the unelected Commission in Brussels.
JRB..if you think you will get an EU referendum from the tories then you are sadly deluded. And they haven't offered you an in/out referendum. It's a referendum on the new deal he's supposed to strike with Brussels when he knows there's no 'negotiations' possible under the Lisbon Treaty.

Stewart Cowan said...

"Scotland in the EU would have citizens more enslaved than ever.


Absolutely correct, sir.

I think I've worked it out. Maybe. I think this is a complete vanity project for the SNP. They are content to go for the simplest and (what they believe is) the most convincing route to "independence".

It will make them celebrities and people will worship them for a season, until the damage becomes obvious.

As for Alex Salmond. I think he's a different kettle of fish from the desperadoes and general nice-but-dim supporters. He has to be a main contender for the most pro-EU, pro-PC, pro-climate con person who lives. He isn't stupid, so he surely must have been bought off?

Hamish said...

Captain Ranty is right in saying the EU will take pretty well anyone these days. There are supposed to be standards of democratic process, rule of law, not to mention fiscal prudence (which Scotland would easily meet).

One of the driving forces behind the EU was the desire to create a third power bloc which would act as a counter-balance between the US and the USSR. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, any such justification has gone.

I would like to see nations avoiding these hierarchical groupings and simply forging multiple ad-hoc links with other nations who have common interests or common challenges. Fishing for example, or oil. Most European nations have neither.

Hamish said...

Sorry to post a third comment on this topic, but Stewart Cowan's slur against Alex Salmond that he must have been bought off should be challenged.
I have only met Alex a couple of times, and he strikes me as a consummate politician, but not someone who could be bought off.

Dioclese said...

Is this why Cameron's fictional referendum is being delayed until after yours, so as to make you position pretty near impossible?

What are you to do? If you vote for independence you might get sucked into the EU anyway. If you stay in the UK there is that nice big carrot that we might leave.

Damned of you do. Damned if you don't.

Stewart Cowan said...

Hamish - nearly all politicians appear nice on the surface. He ignored his own consultation on "gay marriage" and is using this indy-pretence to further his own career at the expense of his country, in a lot of people's opinion.

I think he is either dishonest and unscrupulous or else he totally lacks vision. Either way, he is unsuitable to lead Scotland.

And I consider your accusation of a slur against Salmond as a slur against me!

Joe Public said...

@ Hamish 11:36

" ....consummate politician"

As in:- one who screws the electorate?

Demetrius said...

If a full member of the EU then it is unlikely Scotland will either control or benefit from the oil revenues in the event of the EU taking on the energy industries. Given the shambles in Germany and problems in France there is a real risk.

subrosa said...

That's the answer pa_broon. I'd disagree with your third paragraph though because the unionist media pounce on such things and then they stick in people's minds.

subrosa said...

Oops Hamish, I will correct that. Thanks. I have my doubts about any referendum on it sadly.

subrosa said...

Oh we'd be accepted all right Joe, we have the oil. But the price? Possibly too high for me.

subrosa said...

Well said Ranty.

subrosa said...


O Me Miserum - what am I to do?

Ignore the false promises.

subrosa said...

Good comment Monty.

The sad thing is that if the SNP stopped pushing membership of the EU down our throats and promised a referendum on it they would gain many voters.

As it is they're drifting away.

subrosa said...

Stewart, I doubt if anyone could buy Alex Salmond. He's the most astute senior politician around.

subrosa said...

Hamish I'm meeting more and more folk who want exactly that.

There's no majority in Scotland for full membership of the EU as far as I can see.

subrosa said...

Agree with you about that Hamish and have told Stewart he's barking up the wrong tree there.

subrosa said...

We are Dioclese and that's the rub. Damnation.

subrosa said...

Stewart, all politicians are in the career for many reasons, but I doubt if Salmond is in the pocket of anyone. It's 'unfortunate' his renewable policy is now turning out to be a bit of a scam but he jumped on the bandwagon too soon.

subrosa said...

Now that's a good point Demetrius. Will you do a blog post about it and then I'll cross-post? Please?

JimS said...

It is quite simple - the SNP is, and always has been, headed by a pack of Marxists, just like the EU.

There has always been the danger that if they managed to dupe the 'patriotic' Scots into voting for them and achieve government but then those same Scots realised their true aims they will then be voted out. However as long as Scotland remains locked into the EU even if every SNP seat was lost to a clone of McThatcher it would make no difference in practice.

Allan said...

Good post Subrosa, one so rare in the pro-Independence side of the Macblogosphere.

Any time I hear Sturgeon & go talk about Europe and Scotland "being a member for the past 40 years", i can hear another load of people turning away from voting Yes. I've said before (and it bears repeating) that the common sense position for Yes Scotland was to say that Scotland's entry to the EU was an aspiration but that this was a decision for the Scottish people.

Better Together must be laughting up their sleaves at the ineptness of the SNP over this issue.

Sheila said...

I'm with Stewart and Jim on this one.

Scotland is being used as a test bed for much of the globalist agenda and Salmond is playing his part well for which I'n sure he'll be amply rewarded.

Scotland's cry is independent, but interdependent - sheesh!!

Having looked into his background a wee bit, I find it hard to believe he doesn't know exactly what he is doing.

Nikostratos said...



“be careful what you wish for"

Billy Carlin said...

'Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.'

Jean Monnet 'Founding father' of the EU, and Rothschild frontman, in a letter to a friend on 30th April 1952.

The same thing is happening in the US, Asia etc and they will all be joined in a One World Government run by the BANKERS who control ALL the political parties If anyone thinks that the SNP who have taken on most of these BANKER scams like global warming are going to be any different then they are easily conned.

subrosa said...

Not all are Marxists Jim, at least they weren't when I was active but I take your points.

subrosa said...

Allan, that's kind of you to say so but I'm only writing what I believe.

They're playing straight into the unionist camp right enough.

As for Mr Yousuf on Newnicht tonight. It was sad listening to his propaganda.

subrosa said...

Oh I'm sure he knows what he's doing Sheila - no doubt about it. The 'one' police and fire services, the changes to education which will further dumb down our children. I could go on but I'll go and read your links.

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