Tuesday, 25 October 2011

Here We Go Again

Gaddafi is dead or is he? Cries of liberation ring through the streets yet there were those who had a good life in Gaddafi's Libya.  Meanwhile Libya's interm rulers have announced that the body of Colonel Gaddafi has been buried.  His remains were taken to a secret location in the desert and only four witnesses were present.  The secrecy and mystery about his death have many in the Middle East - and a few here - questioning if what has been done is right.

Yesterday the Libyans, who have ignored the water shortages and tribal conflict, were shocked by the interm government's declaration that Sharia Law would dominate.  Certainly the US and Britain didn't expect this and I shouldn't think France - having been part of the 'destroy Gaddafi' project - did either.

I think the UK were far too quick in becoming involved with the Libyan conflict.  It was the same with Iraq.  We gave no consideration to the results of our intrusion.  Our involvement in destroying Gaddafi is nothing more than disgraceful, especially since so many of our leaders brought him 'on-side' in recent years. Now we're beginning to see the result of assisting Libyans free themselves from dictatorship with the victors imposing Sharia Law.

When Scotland is independent then I'm sure - I hope it's not naivety - that it will not become involved in the affairs of other countries.


WitteringsfromWitney said...

Oh SR, you are surprised? What is that phrase? Oh yes, "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose".

It seems that having 'liberated' Libya, the western powers have managed to impose their own methods of 'regime change'!

Cynic moi? Mais non!

Sue said...

Our involvement in Libya was purely about oil and corporations going in and taking control.


Edward Spalton said...

It seems to be a regrettable fact that, in Muslim countries, minorities like Christians and others receive better protection from authoritarian governments.

This was certainly true in Iraq. Islamists broadcasting to the protesters in Libya have been threatening the Syrian Christians because, in general, they have not been supporting the uprising.

Once the thin, educated, western-educated and frequently corrupt upper crust is ousted, then radical Islam is bound to increase. The poorer people are as much or more under the control of their clergy as were the priest-ridden, rural Irish of a century or more ago.

The key witness in Geert Wilders trial, an Arabic scholar called Professor Jansen, testified that there is not and cannot be any such thing as moderate Islam because it is a scriptural faith and the Koran is the last unalterable word of Allah to Man this side of time. He said that there are moderate Muslims - that is, Muslims who are not totally observant of all the commandments to conquest in the Koran and authoritative commentaries.

This testimony was so explosive that the judge who insisted on Wilders' prosecution (against the advice of the regular prosecutors) tried to influence the witness at a contrived meeting at a private dinner party a few days before he was due in court.

This, in a law-abiding, decent sort of place which the Netherlands used to be.

We must never forget that Islam means submission. It is we who are to do the submitting. I once had a conversation with a Muslim missionary in Derby. He told me that it was "oppression" for a Muslim to have to obey infidel law. When I said "Surely you must expect to obey our laws if you live in our country" he replied "It is not your country. It is Allah's".

Apogee said...

Strangely enough, there have been a few reports over time of the EU trying to get some sort of control in north Africa.It just seemed more than happenstance that there was a neverending flood of refugees. Always wondered what was going on, there was an inference that it was above the elected EU that the action was originating, some of gadaffi's comments hinted at this.Why are we surprised at a resurgence of the Muslim Religion. We know enough about it so we should not be surprised.
Why do we not take them at the word of their holy book when what it says is "kill all who are not Muslim".It is a warning to us ,but a command to them. That is how they see it.Reading Edwards comments and seeing the "instruction" of kill the infidel,I am not at all surprised at what happens.
Understand there is no "wriggle room". The instruction is from their God.They must obey.

subrosa said...

No Wfe, I'm not surprised, but I think many Libyans are.

subrosa said...

Indeed Sue, yet all could backfire. We may quickly become the enemy.

subrosa said...

This latest development should concern all of us Edward.

Thanks for your excellent comment.

subrosa said...

This latest development will stop some western businesses becoming involved in the 'new' Libya Apogee. If they've any sense that is.

Michele said...

Why are you surprised? Did it never occur to you to ask how a popular uprising of freedom loving people became an armed struggle so quickly? Where did they get the weapons?

Or even why it was only SECULAR Muslim states are the ones being convulsed by revolution? Fundamental regimes seem to be immune.

Democracy is alien to Islam - and we have been hoist by our own petard!!

Edward Spalton said...

If I may add a supplementary -
Mr.Cameron's vanity war in Libya was very expensive for two main reasons.

As part of EU defence integration, the RAF was equipped with French smart bombs and these had to be replaced at £1 million per bang. Having scrapped Britain's aircraft carriers, the attack was conducted from Italian airfields and our Italian "partners" took the opportunity to charge us extremely high rent for the privilege.

The French have already laid claim to 35% of "democratic" Libya's oil output,so it looks as if Britain is once more amongst the also rans in getting any pay off.With its long standing Libyan connections, Italy's AGIP will not be far behind.

One can see how contemptuously Cameron is treated in the EU when the mini Napoleon Sarkozy told him in not very diplomatic language to shut up and sod off. Britain's function in the EU is simply to pay up and do as we are told.

Apogee said...

Hi Edward, very well said.
Its all part of being in the EU.
Michele. The weapons have been almost "picked up in the streets", Gadaffi had been buying them for forty years,the quantities were huge. Secular or non-secular is only describing who runs the country and how brutal they are. If a state is run by a religion and the people in power use a very strict interpretation of the law as stated by their religion,the results are inevitable.All religion is the same in this,you must obey your God. Its how the law is applied by the controllers of the religion that matters,and who controls them. If control is by zealots,it is dangerous.

subrosa said...

I'm not surprised Michele, but I'm disappointed our leaders didn't realise this would happen.

All that did occur to me, yes and we have been hoisted by our own petard - courtesy of our leaders.

subrosa said...

Excellent points Edward.

Elby the Beserk said...


Clarinda said...

How minor might Libya seem when the next natural resource war starts in Iran with their receipt of radar detection equipment, weapons and 'moral' support etc. from Russia with China on their sidelines? This horror may come well before our fervent hopes for Independence come to fruition.

Anon said...

The SNP MPs in Westminster voted for the No Fly Zone (the wrecking of Libya).

The Greens voted against (to their credit).

All these 'bad guys', such as Osama, Saddam, Idi Amin and Gaddafi, worked for the CIA and/or MI6.



subrosa said...

Thank you Elby. I read that blog post earlier.

subrosa said...

Indeed Clarinda, especially when you read about Fox and co. being associated with Iran.

subrosa said...

Yes they did Aangirfan. Strangely they didn't even bother turning up for the EU Ref vote on Monday though.

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