Tuesday, 28 September 2010

The Truth Emerges Albeit Slowly

The UK now has more wind capacity installed than the rest of the world put together since the turbines of the Thanet Offshore Wind Farm came on stream last week.

80% of the construction jobs for the Thanet farm went overseas and RenewableUK, the national body for Britain's wind industry, is warning 50,000 jobs could be at risk if manufacturers base their offshore wind operations outside the UK.  Labour promised £60m to upgrade the infrastructure at Britain's ports to attract manufacturers to the UK but that money is vulnerable in the Coalition Goverment's Comprehensive Spending Review.

This means the thousands of jobs the Scottish government insist will be created in the Scottish renewables market may never exist. In Scotland Strathclyde university is one of the best engineering universities in the world , yet we're unable to produce windmills and have to out-source them to Europe and further afield.  It doesn't make economic sense.

To add to our woes, the UK Energy Research Centre - a Government funded academic think tank - has reported it costs nearly twice as much to generate electricity from an offshore wind farm as it does from a conventional power station.  Instead of costs falling as predicted, in the last five years the cost of buying and installing turbines and towers at sea has gone up by 51%.

The true cost of wind is likely to be much higher than the 15p a unit outlined in the report because wind is intermittent and the National Grid is forced to rely on a fleet of gas and coal power stations to back up the supply when the wind fails.

Yet we continue with the crazy plan of building more and more of these inefficient and costly windmills.  When is someone going to shout stop?


Alex Porter said...

Excellent piece Rosie,

People have to realise that Britain is under attack by banks. They are international and have no national loyalties.

So, you're right, it makes no sense economically. Government is driven by bankers and so it makes sense to them for Britain to go for the expensive options as that puts Britain into more debt. The more expensive the better..

I think very few economic commentators understand this! The banks are a very real danger to democracy.

Oldrightie said...

I'm with Alex there. The grip on our lives and our common sense is dreadfully apparent. Short and curlies, as it were. Still, you never know, we may still see justice done once the paper money becomes less important than a food producing allotment!

Smoking Hot said...

Didn't John Windhmmmm write a book where everyone went blind when confronted by the invasion of these things?

'Day of the Triprops' l think it was called.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

"In the last five years the cost of buying and installing turbines and towers at sea has gone up by 51%"

A general rule for gummint schemes... I'm surprised BAE haven't climbed aboard. Global Warming , erm, Climate Change, erm Climate Disruption - FFS now the MSM won't even report it

Our academics have piled uncritically onto this gravy train in undignified haste - I'm surprised at the honesty of The UK Energy Research Centre - an exception that proves the rule?

It seems a general rule that any scheme involving out present public administration infrastructure of ignorant deluded halfwits is an excuse for peculation on a truly epic scale.

Weekend Yachtsman said...

Well to be fair quite a lot of us having been shouting "Stop" for quite a long time now.

The real question is when will the people with power (meaning, largely, the unelected supreme government in Brussels) decide to drop the whole nonsense?

RMcGeddon said...

" The Truth Emerges Albeit Slowly"

Errr like the weekend yachtsman said above SR...the truth has been out there for years but no one was listening.
Nothing will change though.
That fool Huhne is the new coalition energy minister. The new Labour leader Red Ed is the former 'Climate Minister' and the SNP have joined la la land trying to outdo even these green idiots.
And any dissenting voices highlighting the global warming scam are dismissed as nuts and their opinion is ignored by the MSM.

Richard said...

I did a piece about this here the other day. These wind turbines make me want to weep. All sorts of reasons.

Demetrius said...

Assuming, that is the wind is there. Down in Kent for the last three months there have been very few days with much wind at all. Certainly there have not been many to drive the turbines at a rate that would produce much power.

Richard said...

@ Demetrius - absolutely correct. On a calm, windless day in the middle of a cold winter (not unknown in the UK) there will be NO POWER. Well, not unless the wind farms are backed up with 100% capacity in the form of fossil fuel or nuclear stations. These stations will have to be kept in commission and ready to rumble 52/12, however many turbines we have, and of course there's a cost to that. Idling power stations are at their least efficient and produce pollution and waste resources. It's the econmomics of the madhouse. It's like buying a bicycle to do the shopping, but keeping the car idling on the drive in case it's raining.

Alex Porter said...

Renewable technology has to improve, that's all. And it is - at a pace.

With windfarms there is a solution to the 'no wind' issue which doesn't really affect the the sea of the west coast. And if it does, during excess energy times, you could pump the water into a reservoir converting it to hydro during those seldom 'low wind' moments.

Sure there is politics, subsidies and scams involved. Same with oil, same with banking, same with being an MP. Where there's money there's a scam.

That doesn't mean though that renewable have no future. Every technology has an R&D cost before phased commercialisation..

Joe Public said...

@ Alex P comment 1......

"Government is driven by bankers and so it makes sense to them for Britain to go for the expensive options as that puts Britain into more debt. The more expensive the better.."

Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong.

The previous Labour Government committed the entire UK to totally unrealistic energy savings, the Kyoto Agreement. It was & is commercial suicide for the entire British economy.

The bankers just enjoy the windfall (no pun intended) of financing the horrendously expensive AND energy-inefficient systems.

subrosa said...

Indeed the way banks have been operating in the recent past they are a danger to democracy Alex. Yet so many folk don't seem to understand that. They seem quite content to allow the bankers to re-group and continue to bankrupt us.

subrosa said...

I hope to see that day sooner rather than later OR.

subrosa said...

Very clever, Smoking Hot. :)

subrosa said...

I've just watched the 6 o'clock headlines Gordon and there's the brand new Labour leader pushing climate change. Just can't escape the propaganda.

subrosa said...

Yes Weekend Yachtsman we have, but what is needed is one of the 'powerful' to decide to be honest and join us. I await with bated breathe.

subrosa said...

Very slowly some are getting into the MSM but it's the people in the street who have to waken up RM.

We'll just have to keep at it.

subrosa said...

Ah so it was you Richard! I've been looking for that post and couldn't remember whose blog it was. Many thanks.

subrosa said...

Ah Demetrius, but the pounds continue to flow into the big boys' coffers whether the wind blows or not.

subrosa said...

Oh I agree renewables do have a place Alex, but not at the expense of increasing utility bills beyond reason.

subrosa said...

And these energy-inefficient systems seem bomb proof Joe. Doesn't seem to matter how much evidence is now coming to the fore that they're not feasible, they will continue.

Johnnyrvf said...

the Swedish company who own the wind turbines will make 1.2 billion over 20 years in subsidies, enough to buy a 1 giga watt French reactor that would produce 13 times more power 24/7 for longer than the life of the wind powered generators, of course no one mentions this side of it. I am SO glad I live in France, they may appear stupid, but when it comes to their infrastructure, they surely know what works, which is why 80% of electricity generation over here is Nuclear.

subrosa said...

I looked for that evidence when I wrote this Johnny but couldn't find it. I knew I'd read it somewhere.

My friends who live in France say exactly the same. They're laughing at the bills we have here.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

What is simply incredible is the way that ignorant, innumerate, ill informed berks (politicians and bureaucrats and meeja types )are placed in positions to influence and take decisions about this - all the while sidelining, burying, lying and generally ducking informed debate.

Putting Homer Simpson at the controls of a nuclear reactor looks sane by comparison.

Looking at the Pachauris, Monbiots, Millibands and Huhnes of this world (and I would rather not - but they won't leave me alone) one wonders about the amount of arrogance, dishonesty, delusion and frankly stupidity - required to attain high office in this land.

They seem intent on distorting or ignoring the quantified engineering and thoroughly documented environmental issues around the nation's energy requirements.

Energy costs are spiraling out of control on the back of this foolishness and far, far more folk are going to freeze to death because of it.

I was reading somewhere that the Aussies are sitting on their swollen green tinged utility bills in alarming (for the leccy co + warmist politicians)numbers - I must ask The Angry Exile about this.

They are turning utility bills into tax vehicles - the proceeds spent before the money comes in.

Another cold winter...

This is not going to end well.

I recall Italian alta riduzione tax revolts in the 70's - Milan I think. If Monbiot wants his windmills - he can effin pay for them just like his organic veg.

RMcGeddon said...


Did Moonbat not throw in the towel recently and admit defeat ?


Our energy needs are being very poorly managed to say the least.
British Energy sold off to the French company EDF ( 85% owned by the French govt).
Then EDF sell off it's UK power distribution network to Mr Li in Hong Kong. The sale probably due to the lack of support forEDF's attempts at building new nuclear power stations in the UK.
Meanwhile that fool '7 homes Huhne' supports building more windmills costing £200Bn ( or take your pick at any cost you like - the sky is the limit for windmill subsidies).

subrosa said...

There are a few trying hard Gordon, such as Richard North and Delingpole but more need to shout.

It all happened so quickly I think, the introduction of carbon credits. Little explanation of course and just the instruction that this was the way the world was going. A lie of course.

That's my problem. I don't get a choice and have to pay the money or freeze.

subrosa said...

I think he did RM, I read it on EU Ref last week.

Alex Porter said...

So, eh wars and derivatives had nothing to do with bankrupting the UK. It was all Kyoto. Ahem..

Having oil has made everything cheap. We should be thankful for all those cheap bills :O)

You know they're making laptops for $50 in India now. Windmills will go the same way. How many gadgets do you know of that started of expensive and ended up cheap once the technology hit critical mass? Videos, walkmans, PCs, mobiles, CDs.......

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

Aye, Rosie - I follow both the good if grumpy Doctor and Delingpole - I just felt the need for a small scale futile rant :-)

McArmegeddon - Monbiot's Damascene moment was a blip - he's back on the same sorry twaddle as ever.

The Italian alta riduzione tax revolts are an interesting case. I'm having difficulty finding documentation but I recall being impressed at the time.

Essentially, in Milan I think - the politicians were roundly taking the piss (a la Glasgow) = both the Christian Democrats (factfinding missions to Wagner Operas in Salzburg) and the Commies (ditto to Cuba) wouldn't behave.

Some brave folk set up escrow accounts, minded by a few fairly prominent people (A bishop, some academics and a few honest politicians) and (almost - it is Italy) everybody paid their tax into those. They used the interest to buy newspaper space and media slots to harass the thieving creeps and disposed of them in fine style...

Could something similar happen here? - I'd like to think so, but I have my doubts... Of course, I'd join up in an instant.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

Thinking about it - if people had real, firm confidence that it was bone fide - really sound and honest - it could cause some real change.

subrosa said...

Not so cheap in the past couple of years Alex. My gas bill has increased by 63.5%.

But I see what you mean. :)

subrosa said...

Now there's an idea Gordon. If you write something about that and email it to me I'll publish it. Just maybe one of the 'big' boys or girls will catch hold of it.

The problem is people are dubious and even more so because of the horrendous cost this is to each of us.

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

I'll give it some thought - I think that something disruptive is appropriate. Using utility bills as a vehicle to comprehensively gouge outrageous additional tax funds from the populace on the back of a contrived threat simply isn't on.

The real possibility of a tax revolt will get their attention. It would take some setting up though = people and money.

Some industrial grade web based CRM software and system admins, a tame bank, a board of trustees - it's a non trivial enterprise.

Mind you - a name... as a starter =

The Virgin Energy Trust?

Gordon the Fence Post Tortoise said...

Dear Beardie,
about the establishment vetoed takeover of Northern Crock and your aspirations in he financial sector, how would you like to look after several hundred million of disgruntled punter's funds? Maybe more - build a new nuclear power station?

Virgin Nuclear?

Joe Public said...

@ Alex porter 01:02

"So, eh wars and derivatives had nothing to do with bankrupting the UK. ......"

Please read the headline and this article.

It's about wind farms & renewables, therefore to paraphrase you........"So, eh wars and derivatives had nothing to do with ....."(them).

subrosa said...

Why Virgin Energy Trust Gordon?

If you did a wee guest post then people would contribute their ideas hopefully and I could ask a few other bloggers to promote it too.

Delphius1 said...

I seem to remember the previous govrnment blathering on about how green technology would create jobs in the UK, only a matter of days before the wind turbine factory on the Isle of Wight closed.

The fact is foreign companies have already stolen a march and have cornered the market. Every time I see a wind farm being installed I see foreign companies employing foreign brought-in labour to do the job.

Don't get me started on the huge subsidies paid to wind turbine generating companies.

To be honest there's really no benefit to the country having these things at all.

Its like all groundbreakers or first-users, you pay a premium to be the first user of the technology. Secondary users benefit from reduced costs as the technology gets established.

A better option would be to use a regular natural resource like tidal, but then the eco-loons start to fall out with each other as to how environmentally sound that option is. Not that investing masses of non-renewable energy building a huge bank of turbines swatting migrating birds out of the air is in any way eco-friendly either, but hey, lets not split hars about details.

subrosa said...

That would be a far better option Del. Our FM goes on about thousands of jobs will be created in the renewable industry but what are these folk to do? Engineering skills are required for the better paid jobs and if they've all gone to foreign companies then the other jobs must be far less skilled and therefore much lower down the pay scale.

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