Poor David Cameron, I do slightly sympathise with him on the odd occasion and this is one of them. His party is divided about the European Union and in recent months he's tried to silence the dissenters, only to have this rear it's head.
Angela Merkel has called for a new EU treaty to strengthen the rules of the eurozone. Whether it be David Cameron or Gordon Brown who be Prime Minister after 6 May we will have a referendum on this matter. Both labour and the tories are committed to a referendum on future treaty changes.
Eurosceptic Tory MPs have seized on the chance of a referendum to talk up the prospect of renegotiating Britain's relationship with Europe but the Times reports Mr Cameron could argue that Mrs Merkel's demands would not directly affect Britain and need not trigger a referendum. She will also have difficulty convincing France, Sweden and others that a new EU treaty is needed after the drawn-out process of passing the Lisbon Treaty.
Mrs Merkel's statement came after she reluctantly agreed to lend German support to a bailout plan for Greece. She wants tougher powers to direct European economies to stop them ignoring existing rules and sliding into meltdown like Greece. "I think we will not be able to bypass possible treaty changes, I think we need them," she said yesterday.
Gordon Brown told the House of Commons in 2007 that he ruled out new treaties for this parliament and the next.
Reading between the lines, it would appear the politicians have covered their backs regarding their 'commitment' to a referendum on treaty changes. It would be up to the tory Eurosceptic MPs to push their leader into honouring the promise - that is if Cameron does win the election.
Sue has her own interpretation on this subject.
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And who, exactly, have we got in Europe that is properly representing the people of Britain and who will put a stop to this now?
It'll be interesting to see how this progresses. After all, we aren't part of the Eurozone - if the legislation doesn't affect us, then it's possible that we won't even be a signatory.
Of course there are going to be new treaties with the EU. There are a number of candidate member-states lining up, the Croatian Accession treaty is the next, already carrying those parts of the Lisbon Treaty that couldn't be got past Germany, Ireland and the Czech Republic. The fiscal and monetary government of the EU has to have a further treaty - not a re-opening of Lisbon, Maastricht or Rome -and it will be attached to other treaties, in smaller, digestible parts if necessary. I think after Croatian Accession comes Serbia, then Macedonia when the Greeks have been pacified about the name, then there's the big one, Turkey.
There is an abundance of opportunity to consolidate European economic government; I had a try at thinking about this yesterday. No EU treaty is merely technical, we need to have a government that asks the people every single time.
hatfield girl,
Genuine question. Does anyone in the UK actually care about the Croatian Accession Treaty? If that was put to the UK electorate what would you expect the turnout to be?
Mrs R, my response to your questions is pass, pass.
It will all be in the small print Hythlodaeus and of course tucked away on some website deep in the internet.
Do you think we'll be asked for approval for any of these changes HG? Somehow I doubt it.
I imagine the tories are already studying how they can opt out of referenda.
The NWO dictators will never surrender power without another major collapse of their banks. Their banks, not ours, we only get to look in the window.
Cameron has dug himself into a hole and it will require fancy footwork from him and some dissimulation from the EU on his behalf to get him sorted. But sort it they will - for the Tories, like Labour, are a party bought and paid for by business interests who want the EU.
I agree about the kind of arguments that will be put for no referendums - nothing to see here, just a standard joining by a small country, no need, pure formality. Then after a few of these with all sorts of things riding piggy back there will be need again for a tidying-up exercise, say in about a decade or so, just as Gordon said, not for ten years.
Of course, Scotland can decide whether to rejoin if it votes for Scottish independence. Sort of bonus points.
HG wouldn't England have to reapply if Scotland had independence?
"Both labour and the tories are committed to a referendum on future treaty changes."
Isn't that what they told us last time?
"Whether it be David Cameron or Gordon Brown who be Prime Minister after 6 May we will have a referendum on this matter. Both labour and the tories are committed to a referendum on future treaty changes."
Hmmm . . .Labour has committed itself to an awful lot over the past 13 years - and honoured very little.
But I agree, a headache Cam. could do without!
The break up of a federalised EU member state is severely discouraged by EU elites. Typically there are different interpretations of what happens if a 'region' which has foolishly been defined by what is actually a nation (as has been done in Labour's EU regionalistion practice: Scotland, Wales, then 9 English regions (deliberately fragmented with regard to their history culture and economic linkage) of which one is London - which is utterly unlike any other English 'region' more like an international trading post, not even going to mention the 6 Counties) achieves independence despite all the carrots and sticks. But I think that the UK, minus Scotland, as the original federal member-state doesn't have to reapply, whereas Scotland, as the re-emergent nation state, may. The enormous disincentives to the break-away of federated bits of EU member states should always be born in mind.
And Scotland has all those fish, and eco-power resources, and Rockall pristine oilfields. And the nuclear bases and stuff. Wouldn't do to have Scotland setting off out like Norway, would it?
Ah right HG. Somehow I thought with England losing region 9, they would become another entity in EU terms.
You've hit the nail on the head. Can't have Scotland being prosperous and thinking for itself right enough.
A single Europe, as MacMillan, Heath and Churchill all aspired towards creating.
Never again shall our continent become the play thing for superpowers in America and Russia.
Let us creep up on peace, let us make Jean Monnet proud.
Oh Dean if it wasn't so serious I'd laugh. Never again the UK be the play thing for America? You can say that while you know that we have 10,000 of our armed forces in Afghanistan supporting the US?
Plus of course all the fatalities and horrendous casualties from the Iraq war - where we were like lego in the hands of the US.
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