This weekend I was looking for the re-offending rate of young people in our prison system and I came across this from Ron Lovelock, who spent two years in borstal in the 60s. Dare I suggest that his final paragraph is the opinion of many :
'It seems stupid to have gotten rid of borstals - I think the country misses that sort of place. Kids can't be mollycoddled by the do-gooders of today; it doesn't do them any good. They have to learn discipline. And if they don't learn to find for themselves, they've had it.'
In the 60s there was little or no knife crime, gun crime or drug abuse and young offenders were sentenced for petty crimes in many cases. Today our criminal courts are dealing with much more serious crimes committed by young people but the punishment doesn't appear to be very effective once you see the re-offending figures, presently around 85%. What is the solution? We could try good old-fashioned discipline and good old-fashioned work.
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I was sent to an Approved School, Kerrison. Suffolk. Sadly closed in 1990.I don't believe that I would be the person I am today (take that for what you will) without the good people that worked there, who changed me from the self centered spoilt little boy,to a hard working adult.
It is criminal that the system we had in the UK was destroyed,mainly down to commie propaganda on the Beeb ('Scum') and the movie industry ('Scrubbers').
I work close to the infamous Kerlaw school, now closed. Every now and again a few 'in mates' would escape and cause chaos in the area. In my work, (a large supermarket), they would come in and try to steal anything was wasn't nailed down. All the police could do was take them back.
Morning Keir. From what I gather borstal/approved school did a lot of good for many young lads. Wonder why there was no place for girls?
Don't you think it's down to the management of these places Rab? Have you read about Sheriff Joe in the US who makes everyone wear pink underwear, tried to ban TV but was told it was against their human rights, so they get the news channel and weather channel only.
Any establishment is only as good as the staff and management.
I'm pretty sure that they weren't held responsible for their actions and they knew that the 'system' wouldn't do anything to them. I'm sure that this attitude did nothing to resolve their issues.
I've just remembered that my Grandmother was a 'house mother' in a Church of Scotland 'bad boys' school in Beith, Ayrshire. She took me there when I was a wee boy and I remember them climbing out the windows to run down the path to greet her! She wasn't averse to using the slipper, but the lads loved her. So she said anyway!
I think back in the 50s and 60s the boys knew there were only two things they could do - behave or end up useless.
Of course there was no benefit culture to be fiddled in those days. We all had to make it under our own steam.
Perhaps it shows now just how overdone the benefit system has become because in modern young offenders institutions there is no challenge is there? You survive if you succeed but you also survive if you fail. Failure pays too it seems.
"We could try good old-fashioned discipline and good old-fashioned work."
Now how on earth does that gel with socialism and the trade union ethos? Work, a more disgusting word, for Labour to contemplate, than any expletive.
There is also a strong tendency to label much needed and well-intentioned correction, discipline and guidance in the workplace (use whatever other noun you like here) as "bullying" - I refer to my own long experience at the direct clinical end of the NHS. I accept some of my old Ward Sisters in the late 60s had their charisma removed at birth but the patients were beautifully cared for and the whole hospital ran like clockwork. Not a single bit of ignorant interference from politically correct managerialism.
It's not just the family that has broken down but the insidious 'laissez-faire' indifference and corruption of politically correct/human'rights' society that is now too frightened to speak up in case we are politically incorrect ie talking rational sense, logic or morally robust. The quasi-emotional has taken precedence over the actual factual!
The politically correct must not be challenged and the oiks are just clever enough to exploit this!
We ALL need to undergo some 'spine' training so that society can exist and develop.
Did you hear the pathetic little Labour bloke who seemed barely potty-trained, squished between the spluttering Tory and an exasperated Kenny MacAskill on the Sunday Politics Today, desperately regurgitating bile and non-truths when KM was making reasonable suggestions to correct the current non-effectiveness of our prison and 'rehabilitation' systems? These gibbering non-entities are the very prats who are incapable of anything other than superficial spin, gratification and the odd grapefuit bowl - come back Tariq Ali, at least he talked (talks) passionately about his beliefs from a factually robust viewpoint which would invigorate intellectual debate and make mincemeat of that drip Billy Bragg!
Ahhh......must've got out of bed too quickly this morning.
Good morning OR although it's fairly dreich here right now.
Oh dear OR, perhaps I should apologise for being so politically incorrect first thing on a Monday morning. You're right of course, as always.
Good morning Clarinda and thanks for such an excellent comment. Don't you think the Human Rights Act has a lot to answer for in the persecution of 'bullies'? The label is far too easily applied to those who, as you say, have had their people skills removed at birth, but they weren't bullies.
Bullies are usually those who have been promoted well above their abilities (for various reasons) and they use their authority in a negative way. I agree we really must challenge these people.
Yes I did see that little twirp, Baker was his name I think. To take a positive view of the discussion, the twirp showed he was an excellent example of today's Scottish labour - incompetent is too kind an adjective for him. Kenny MacAskill seemed rather bemused by it all and as you say, the tory and MacAskill allowed the stupid wee laddie to hang himself - not once but several times.
Let's not get onto the subject of Billy Bragg or I'll be sitting here all day and get no work done!
A couple of my brothers went to approved schools. Those schools were five star luxury compared to their home conditions.
...and they thrived on it.
Turned out pillars of their community and families, didn't they.
One of them has long term fostered three brothers. Right little sods they were, the youngest was only five, when he appeared.
...and they're some credit to my brother and his other half now.
Aye instilling a bit of discipline is no bad thing, providing the why so is explained. Instilling robotic discipline for it's own sake does no good at all. Results in dumb insolence and pent up rage.
Particularily if you're of a rebelious disposition in the first place.
Much, much better to apply methods of encouraging self displine.
Wouldn't have had so many of the problems associated with the 'institutionalisation' ( my that's a big wurd), would we?
Aye,thinking for yourself and having the comfort of self discipline, no matter what level of abilities tends to encourage a respect and understanding of and for others.
Could do with a bit more of that 'understanding' these days.
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Wisnaeme, I perfect example of what's gone wrong with the do-gooders and the politicians we now have no who no knowledge except for statistics.
I'd vote for a politician who had been in borstal but how many would?
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