The past few days there has been much written and spoken about MPs salaries and expenses. One sentence I have heard repeatedly is 'being an MP is hard work.' That's from politicians of course, although I think a couple of BBC political journalists also mentioned it. I won't accept that MPs work any harder than a great many people in the UK and I find this excuse insulting.
Bloggers the devil's kitchen, flyingwarpigs, and Key bored Warrior and others have posted on the latest revelations of MPs misuse of expenses and Gordon Brown has 'set up an enquiry' which means he hopes the matter will be pushed into the long grass.
Let's get this into some perspective. An MP earns a basic salary of £63,291, their travelling expenses are paid (first class of course), they don't have to produce receipts for items less than £25 which allows another nice wee earner of up to £124.90 maximum a week, taken on the basis of buying one item of £24.99 five days a week and not forgetting the food allowance of up to £400 a month. The list goes on.
Let's compare this with a major in the British army who is paid £45,548. Their travelling expenses are also paid for but they must travel second class. They have to produce receipts for anything over the cost of £1 and the item must be completely relevant to their work. They get no housing allowance and should they own a home but have to travel away during their working week, they are expected to stay in an officers mess and pay messing fees, which are poorly subsidised these days. When in theatres of war they are given a daily allowance, known as the operational welfare package, of £12.31 per day (taxable) for being deployed on operations. They pay for all food, nothing is free.
So an MP receives a salary of nearly 50% more than an army major plus all the tax free perks. An army major may be responsible for the lives of hundreds of men but they receive no tax free perks. Both have good pensions but an MP receives a pension as soon as they're sworn into Westminster, army personnel have to give service for at least 11 years before they qualify for a reasonable pension.
John Redwood has blogged on MPs pay and some solutions which he thinks are worth consideration. Thankfully increasing their pay is not one of them. One thing is certain, the Westminster expenses bubble must be burst and the present remuneration system for MPs totally overhauled. MPs should not set their own pay scales.
I suggest their salary is brought into line with a major in the army. That would be fair wouldn't it?
Note: I consider myself most fortunate to have a competent MP who does not claim excessive expenses but shouldn't every member of the public be as fortunate. If they can't do the job they should be sacked - that's what happens in the real world.
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29 comments:
The arduous task of being self-important deserves a "do you know who I am" level of income. Do you realise that they would not be happy on £250,000 without massive expenses on top?
If it's any confort to you all, the debate over MP salaries, expense accounts, housing allowance, the works...is much the same on this side of the pond. Apparently, great talent must be paid high salaries in order to retain them in public service... So far, fibbing is the one great unique great talent I've found them all to possess.
If anything, MPs should receive less than a Major since they don't risk their lives in service of Crown and Country. Pay in the British Armed Forces is ludicrously low. Slash MP's expenses and give the money to the AF - all ranks.
JR is right: on yesterday's DP he called the idea of a pay increase, even if cutting expenses, 'offensive'.
No doubt if given the chance we would all fiddle the expenses its human nature..Its just they should not be able to have the means to fiddle them...
The problem with paying pi## poor wages for your M.P is you just end up with people such as George Osborne and Dave Cameron. Both stinking rich and no need to work and u dont want that..
Perhaps a hostel for M.Ps near Westminster for them to stay at whilst in London. Cars taken from a provider controlled by an independent organization.
Office staff likewise...
Vouchers given to them so they can have meals and use them when on parliamentary business..
constituency homes provided by each constituency and remains their property and when the next MP
is elected they take over the property.
just a few ideas.....
and when it comes to removing the career politicians, those who are there to pork the system, allow them no more than 4 terms or 20 years in Westminster, with a pension based on just that.
Then we attract people into National politics who have had a real life in their first and second thirds, so that their third innings is for the good of the people and the country, not themselves.
Thanks for all your comments so far.
Niko, are you telling me any MP is worth more than an army major? Or are you telling me the standard of army majors is 50% less than MPs?
I certainly don't think £63,000 is a poor salary. not be any means. I know people who run small businesses get a lot less and work a damn sight harder than any MP.
Baron's life, that's interesting. What's the background of the majority of your representatives over there? We seem to be having 'career politicians' here these days. They study politics at university then tag onto a political party and move up that way. Shame because any independence thought they have is squashed.
GV I chose an army major because I thought most people would relate to their work. A Lt Col on level 1 gets the same as an MP but of course without any expenses or subsidised housing or food although food is slightly subsidised when they're in theatres of war. It's shameful our soldiers are fighting these useless wars and they still get charged for their daily food.
FC 15 years is long enough. All this rubbish about the need to attract the best is just that. We may attract a much better calibre of MP if we did have a 15 year limit on service.
Thanks SR, you have more knowledge of the pay structures than I; all I know is that it's a pittance compared to MPs.
The government seems to be fond of quoting 'the Swedish Model' regarding welfare, education and so on. As I understand it, the Swedes also house their MPs in a block of flats within walking distance of their Parliament - thereby obviating the need for a 2nd homes allowance and the concomitant expenses.
They all could be dressed in orange boiler suits and radio tagged too (Just to see where they REALLY are).
An experienced working commitee, could be organised by the Noble Lords Archer, Watson and Ahmed.
subrosa,
I'm not sure about now but at one time Scottish MPs could claim the full fare, as long as they put in a token appearance in the House, for return flights from Glasgow to London even if they booked in advance for a discount or took the train. The Thursday night sleeper used to be full of MPs - not always at their best.
Subrosa,
We don't pay for food in Afghanistan as it's classed as "Field Conditions", there is an allowance for being in austere accommodation! And a tax free lump sum at the end of the 6 months for Officers and Men, although the lads/lassies get more due to tax reasons and the sliding scale. There is a refund on Council Tax for single personnel and we get to work 6.5 days in every 7 but usually are too busy to take 1/2 a day off, in the 6 months we get to come home for 2 weeks which includes travelling time. We also get 30 minutes of free phonecalls to home per week(it used to be 20 but when Princess Anne found out that Criminals in jail were getting more she got rather upset and rightly so!).
Most MPs don't earn their wages, it is a gravy train that sometimes includes the whole family and it has got to stop, you wouldn't let an alcoholic run a bar would you?
I may be looking through rose tinted specs but those that are able should be standing up to demand standards from those that aspire to lead our country, only a little thing. May I also point out if I do something wrong I get Court Martialled, or if I kill someone in the name of UK Plc I have to go to an inquest which may lead to prosecution for manslaughter if I haven't acted within my ROE. If an MP does something wrong he retires/resigns on a fat package. We must do 16 years to earn an immediate pension, the lads have to do 22 years, don't ask me I don't make the rules!
CD
SNP to take control of Dundee City Council after recent by-election gain,
Where are you? Out celebrating!?
I support the MPs' village idea. Put everyone in a building very close to Westminster - which is funded and maintained by the tax payer.
That cuts out expenses for second homes - rent, mortgages, repairs and furnishings etc - which make up by far the biggest sums.
The only remaining claimable expense should be travel to and from Westminster from constituencies.
We wouldn't want it to get too expensive for those scots to make it down would we (hehe).
Plus - the shenanigans that would go down in a building full of MPs would make a few great stories.
http://tinyurl.com/dl7256
Gorgon, completely and utterly skewered and done to his face.
Why is Cameron or any of his team doing this.
Cameron is a BIG GIRLS BLOUSE
But he will be in 10 Downing Street soon enough, he will take the same tack as Broon (he is of the same mold) and we need to be free of the lot of them.
CraiseyDaisey, well that's the first I've heard of them not paying for food in theatres of war. In fact my information tells me to get 'decent' food it has to be paid for.
What's this about getting an allowance for 'austere' accommodation? That must have become law in the past couple of months. I always paid silly money to live in messes. Yes there is a council tax rebate for single personnel, same as single pensioners like myself can claim.
Daisy you make no remarks about the fact that travel is always second class or that the OWP is taxable or that the military have to pay for their own food when on duty, either in UK or internationally.
Also I do not agree with your 6.5 days in every 7 because most work 7 days a week in war situations. Two weeks leave in 6 months of continual work is just not suitable to the human and I'm pleased you mentioned that. Very few public will know that fact.
I do understand your view believe me and I appreciate how badly HM forces are treated.
My apologies for getting the pension years wrong, it was written by the memory of a conversation and I couldn't find details on the internet.
All is all, with my errors, our troops are treated like third class citizens compared with our MPs who take no risk in bringing this island to a third world country. The quicker the better for me, then Scots may waken up.
No Oldrighie I'm not going to celebrate because it wasn't a clear SNP win, it was one resulting from a voting system with which I disagree.
Also I find it strange that the provost has resigned and will not support the SNP. That's politics for you!
Do you know Lobbydog that's the opinion of many of my friends and myself. Use an existing building in London and make it 4 star accommodation for MPs. The security of MPs would be greatly reduced because they would be centralised and the taxpayer would be so much happier.
I think John Redwood suggested that in his post.
But LD do you honestly think they will vote for that? They shouldn't be allowed to vote for it, they should be told. It doesn't matter who the public vote for the system continues.
FC I'm getting to that way of thinking. The conservatives have lost so many own goals with their pussy-footing attitude and I'm afraid if I did vote tory, then I wouldn't be voting tory at the next election because they show no desire to improve the lives of the population and give the impression that the electorate are a bit irrelevant.
Thankfully I shall have a choice, I shall vote SNP.
Goodnight Vienna, the military salaries are available on the internet, just search officer salaries + UK and you'll find them.
Try to find the expenses rulings of Westminster though and it's another matter. I'm sure even an expert searcher would spent a few hours.
You're perfectly correct about the Swedes and housing, I was talking to one of their officers just a couple of months ago.
But then Swedes are still a democracy, are we?
You missed from my earlier post the complete annihilation of Gorgon at Strasbourg today.
And the BBC or SKY showd nowt of it.
Who is this guy, Darel Hannen?
http://tinyurl.com/dl7256
Subrosa,
No the food is reasonable, although lads in Patrol bases and FOBs have to eat 24 hr rations some of the time and they have come a long way in the last 10 years, there is a choice.
Yes it's second class travel we had our 1st class travel for duty reasons taken away due to budget cuts, even Oxfam travel business class, that's why they don't get a feckin dime from me. I have always gone by the cheapest means to ensure the taxpayer never got their money wasted, I've never gone to the best hotels or kicked the arse out of allowances as every penny has to be accounted for and the limits are set.
We are all charged for living in the accommodation and pay CILOCT (Charge In Lieu of Council tax) which is a bit of a scam if you ask me. Married personnel get no accommodation charges and everyone gets some help in getting home about twice per month depending on how far you live. Mess charges are standard and sliding depending on rank and perks and finally, you'l love this PAYD (pay as you dine) has arrived so you pay for what you eat, although the system is a profit making one PFI initiative.
I know you think that we work 7 days out of 7 but we do have some leeway otherwise we'd burn out, even the lads fighting come back to FOBs and get to recover, but not for long.
I support your comment on the fact that Westminster MPs are pampered, overpaid and cowardly. Their over inflated egos got UK Plc into this mess.
I being a successionist bastard, as I'm labelled by my fine Unionist fellows, find it tough to comprehend why we're in Irag and The Stan - Politicians and the Army would have you believe that the Uk is under threat from terrorism, I state you brought it on yourselves with your Colonial small minded, lets rule the world attitude, the Uk is under threat from ill considered, misogynist Whitehall and FCO types that have squandered our Oil Legacy and I'm keen to prise it from their soon to be dead grasp as quickly as possible, through legitimate means.
The future is tough, our involvement in war is money driven and the Uk has to match its Foreign Policy aspirations with the financial and materiel support in order to get out of this something for those the UK insists in dominating despite a litany of historic records proving otherwise.
Hope I haven't gone on too long!
CD
CD of course you haven't gone on too long, I appreciate you informing everyone about the bits I missed out.
Soldiers do work 7 days a week at times though CD, they did in Iraq in the early days then, after 2 months, got a weekend's R & R to Kuwait which I am told is not even as interesting as Dundee. (Says a lot for Dundee doesn't it).
I'm pleased to hear you speak about how you feel. So many of the public think the troops just do as they're told (which they do) but have no opinion. From my experience your opinion is the majority.
I won't go into the numbers who decided to take drugs to get out of the army because I'm not clued up to date on that, but it's a sad reflection that people, who have never taken drugs in their lives, feel the need to do so to get out of the services quickly. I know one officer who lost 5 of his best men this way but he didn't blame them.
It's still the single soldiers who suffer more financially by having to live in messes etc.
Let me guess now - would you join a Scottish army? :)
FC my apologies. I'm going to put it on here and let people see it. Did you see Brown sit smiling? Barsteward.
Many thanks FC, really appreciate you saying about that and you're right, I've heard nothing on either news programmes about it. Funny that isn't it.
Conan, personally I'd prefer pink boiler suits, prettier don't you think?
Subrosa,
I'm happy to join a Scottish Defence Force - but I, like my forefathers, am a man of the sea. I'm happy to bring to bear my considerable experience of 23 years (man and boy) to benefit Scotland.
CD
Well there's plenty water for you to play in round and about CD.
What about regiments like signals, logistics etc, the regiments who second personnel to other regiments? It wouldn't be feasible would it to have our own but to share with the rest of the UK surely.
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