Carpet Update: the MD's Offer

I though those of you who were kind enough to offer sensible advice about my hall carpet problems may be interested to know I received a emailed 'decision' from the store's assistant manager.

As I expected the store insists I agreed to the position of the (incorrect) join and supports its estimator.

However, the final paragraph of the email gave me an insight into the mindset of the Managing Director.

However the Managing Director would be prepared to offer you a £200 credit note as a “Gesture of Good Will” to spend in Gillies in an effort to resolve this issue for you.

Last night I downloaded the paperwork for the Small Claims Court and hope to complete it this weekend. The MD's defence will be interesting.

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Carpets And Parental Stupidity

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Since last Wednesday most of my days (excluding Sunday) have been taken up with trying to resolve a problem with a new lobby carpet. It was ordered from a very reputable Tayside family furnishing store some time ago and fitting was arranged for last Wednesday.

My lobby is long and I knew beforehand that a join in the carpet would be required. When the estimator had measured up I explained where I wanted the join, (it was exactly where it was in the old carpet): I paid the deposit requested and thought no more about it.

That's not exactly true because a few weeks beforehand the shop telephoned to ask when I was paying the balance because it was required before the work was done.  I was slightly taken aback by this request but decided, as I'd purchased a few items from the store over the years, that nothing could go wrong.

Throughout my lifetime I've found optimism doesn't always pay, so the evening before what should have been a straight forward event, I took a couple of photographs of the old carpet, mainly because it had served me well. By pure chance the join in it is highly visible because I'd lifted it there to fix a loose floor board earlier in the day.

The fitters kindly lifted the old carpet and started laying the new one. Immediately I noticed the first half stopped just one inch past a doorway.  When I mentioned it was around 15" short they checked their measurements and said they were fitting as per the estimator's plan, although he had not recorded a doorway in that part of the lobby.

That's when the problems started. So far there have been 23 emails and numerous telephone calls between the Broughty Ferry store (which includes their head office), thir Perth store (where the carpet was purchased) and myself. I do have a (temporary) carpet because on fitting day I was told they would be unable to replace it for at least two weeks because the fitters' diary was fully booked and if I didn't let them proceed with fitting the carpet sent, then I would be without floor covering for at least that time.

Since then I've heard every excuse in the book - and some. The MD's office will not respond to a request to meet even though I was continually told last week that he was the one giving the instructions. The estimator has been back, remeasured and told me he 'doesn't remember' any conversation about where the join should be and as it's placed one inch to the side of the door surround that is acceptable in carpet laying.

On Saturday the senior salesman emailed me to say he would be discussing the issue with the store boss when he returned from holiday yesterday.  Unsurprisingly, yesterday I had another email from him to say it will now be Wednesday because the store manager doesn't return until today and today is his own day off.

You're getting the picture aren't you?

I haven't been idle though and have contacted the local CAB for advice. (In this area Trading Standards only deal with criminal cases I was told. When I said it was criminal they had my money and have not fulfilled their contract I was told it was a small claims court matter and not a criminal one).  The CAB said I have done what they would have recommended.  I knew that because I was a CAB volunteer many years ago and was trained in consumer issues, but I wanted the store's name officially recorded.

The crux of the matter is the estimator's word against mine. He's not going to admit he's made an error and I'm going to settle for nothing less than a carpet with the join placed where it was wanted.  I foresee an offer of a small refund coming my way this week - another stalling tactic because they know that would be unacceptable.

The carpet was expensive. I decided to buy the best I could afford in the hope that it lasted my lifetime. The attitude of the store has certainly knocked a few weeks if not months off that, but I refuse to be bullied and intend to do a sit-in at the store's head office if the matter's not resolved by the end of this week.  Many years ago I did a successful sit-in at a large Shropshire store when a table I bought fell to pieces the day it was delivered, so I have the experience. Must dust off the picnic box, prepare enough food and drink for a long day and remember a table cloth - surely there will be a convenient table in a furnishing store - and I won't forget the serviettes.  I will include a china cup and saucer for my tea of course.

Now that I've bored you with my floor covering problem how about this to increase your blood pressure?  What kind of parent buys a 12-year-old one of these?  Apple quote the price 'from £499' and Apple don't allow their products to be sold below their recommended manufacturer's price.

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But Seriously - Guest Post

In response to this, one of my readers pa_broon, kindly offered to write the following guest post.  It is cross-posted on his own blog.




No, its not a Phil Collins album, I thought I might post something serious for a change, normally I'd say it doesn't suit me and that it involves to much in the way of work. You have to do stuff like 'research' and back up any claims you make with something called 'evidence'. It's much easier for me to transfer the contents of my head directly on to the screen, no need for any citations or providing sources because it all comes from the fevered imagination of a person who's blog no one reads; most importantly, no one is harmed.

But listen, while I am no brilliant academic, no wait, don't argue, I've accepted it. Nor am I a total shmuck, I've been around and I read a lot, it was suggested to me by another blogger that I might say a few words about Debt Collection Agencies and their methods along with things that could help you if you're being hounded by a DCA.

A very quick few words about my experience firstly; I joined a gym (I'll try not to be specific, it was a tennis orientated set-up, going by the name of David Lloyd.) I signed the standard twelve month minimum contract but four months in discovered three serious flaws; the service was terrible, the staff were entirely unhelpful and I simply wasn't middle class enough to be there. I told them I wasn't happy with the service (although I jest, the service was rotten and not worth £80 a month in anycase,)  they adopted a 'tough-you-signed-a-minimum-twelve-month-contract-that-you-can't-get-out-of-so-meh' stance, they were not interested in the slightest even although the reason I was unhappy was their fault.

I cancelled my direct debit and did not return to the club.

Here comes the serious bit.

They chased me at first themselves then after three months of correspondence (me telling them they'd broken their own contract by not providing a service they said they would) they passed the debt on to their pet DCA, we'll call them ARC because that was and still is their name. I explained to them the issue was still in dispute (meaning I was still jawing with David) but to no avail. Daily phone calls, letters on a weekly basis with threats of all sort of things ramping up as time went by. Eventually letters start coming from a solicitor called Trevor Munn, threatening action in Northampton (or was it Southampton) County Court. Needless to say, Trevor Munn is another arm of ARC and the next step in their intimidation program.

I'll stop the narrative here, you can google some of those companies and find all sorts of stories on consumer action websites and forums but here is the thing, never have I ever seen a post saying; 'That swine Trever Munn took me to county court!' Why? Because he (or they) never will.

The following information is true for any civil debt not including Council Tax or monies owed relating to property; it will stop DCA's and any action they're threatening to take (albeit it up to a certain value) in its tracks.

It is called more generally 'Prorogation of Jurisdiction' and is covered in paragraph 3(4) of schedule 8 of the Civil Jurisdiction & Judgments Act 1982.

Sounds technical but it isn't really, please don't be intimidated by it. What it means is this:

• You can't be taken to court in a jurisdiction (ie. Northampton) except for the one in which you are personally domiciled. (Any threat by a DCA to do so is intimidation.) If you live in Edinburgh, they need to take action in Edinburgh.
• Even if the contract you signed says you agree to be dealt with by English law (for example) this is null and void, no way does a clause in a consumer contract circumvent UK civil law, much as big business would like it to be the case. 

There are some caveats, the main one being; it doesn't work with immovable property, if you live in a house in Northampton (for example) and get some crazy paving, the crazy paving will still be in Northampton even if you're not; they can still chase you in Northampton.

Specifically what it doesn't cover and the topic that caused me to be serious for a moment is Council Tax. It wouldn't be covered since it's attached to property anyway but CT is a different kind of debt and a blog post all by itself; you don't have a leg to stand on. The statute of limitation for civil debt in Scotland is five years (in England it is six) meaning, if they don't chase you in that time you're probably ok. For Council Tax debt, the statute of limitation as far as I can gather is twenty years from the date of the summary warrant being generated, these warrants are issued automatically at the request of Council and they won't get lost on the way to the sheriff court either. (If any of that is incorrect please let me know, it was hard to find even that info.)

In summary, if you run up credit on a catalogue card or HP agreement, they have to sue you where you live. Obviously if it's thousands they'll go after you but even then if they're doing it in Plymouth you can write to the court asking for it to be 'dismissed with expenses in favour of the defendant'. The nub is; if its a couple of hundred quid, they won't because its not economically viable to do so. My supposed debt was around £550 and they left me alone, even Citizen's Advice (who didn't know about Prorogation of Jurisdiction) said they probably wouldn't chase me for that amount.

A lot of people go to great lengths to break out of contracts were the plaintiff (the company doing the chasing) simply has no intention of following through with legal action; it's all bluff. I think we can all agree Debt Collection Agencies are odious set ups many using as they do: very questionable techniques when it comes to dealing with what they like to call its clients.

Final point to make. If you have this kind of low level debt (maybe under £1000) and you are being chased by DCA's and their pet (in many cases, I think fake) solicitors; always have a good look at the wording of the letters they send; for example:

• '...documentation is being prepared for submission to county court...'

Leaving to one side it'll be the wrong court, the court isn't preparing documents, Trevor is and he's a cad and a bounder and has no power whatsoever to do anything; only the correct court has that power and only after a fair hearing. Since Trev is lazy and a tight-arse to boot, he's not going to go to another court for a tawdry few hundred quid.

My point is, if you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in this situation, this law empowers you, it may not void the contract, although people with bigger minds might be able to say if adding a clause to a consumer contract saying 'any legal disputes' would be handled by a court that has no jurisdiction over the consumer does in fact void it?

Beyond that, it allows you to have some fun with debt collection staff, I used to think they were just doing their job, it wasn't their fault etc but now? Not so much so, the people at ARC were rude and intimidating and that is wrong. However when they phone you (and they will again and again) the negative attention can be remedied by saying things like, 'So glad you phoned back, isn't it annoying when our phone sex is disturbed, I was fast reaching a cli-'. Usually they hang up... 

Usually...

Digressing slightly and because I don't want anyone to think I'm encouraging bad debt, my fight was just, they wanted me to pay for a substandard service I wasn't using, if I'd been using the gym  during the remainder of the contract (and my waist line will prove I wasn't) then I would have paid because that is fair. However, if you're a screaming store/credit card nutter with a shoe addiction; shame on you! You deserve all you get.

Although can I just say, those Ferragamos you're wearing are to die for!

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