Friday, 28 September 2012

EU Poll Results

The media often mention, when reporting matter relating to the European Union, that the Scots are far more in favour of belonging to the 'club' than the English.

The poll asked 'Should an independent Scotland be in the EU?' and the results may surprise some - they did me.  Less than a third are pro-EU with just short of a fifth of voters against independence but wishing to be out of the EU. What this small poll does show is that the assumption all Scots are pro-EU is wrong.

Thanks to all of you who voted.


RMcGeddon said...

Do you not think the whole debate is now pointless SR ?
The European Act 1999 made Scotland a single constituency of the EU ( we formerly had 8 regions).
Whether independent or not, all parties support the EU, so we will still just be a single constituency with no chance of running our own affairs.
This is why you can never get the SNP to answer any straight questions about being truly independent ( outwith the EU). Things such as enjoying a 200 mile Scottish fishing right as opposed to our 8 miles within the EU.
The single regional police force is just following EU procedures. And like the upcoming single fire service will be controlled from the centre.
Local emergency services are now 0845 remote services. Remote and under a single political control.
UKIP seem to be a saftey valve to let off steam for the unbelievers.
Maybe Spain and Greece disintegrating will wake people up to the coming disaster.

subrosa said...

No I don't think it's pointless RM but until people waken up and decide to look to the future, we'll continue to be stuck within the EU system.

You're right though, we're going down the EU road with some speed here in Scotland. The SNP government are moving much faster than the Westminster one. Of course that's because no SNP politician dares to stick their head above the parapet because they know they'll lose their job.

Are they doing their best for Scotland? Of course not.

RMcGeddon said...

I suppose the SNP have no choice SR. They've got to convince the EU that they're fully on message ( single police and fire service, more green than anyone else, staying in nato etc) if they're to get independence.
I think John Prescott tried to introduce EU constituency govt to the North East of England a few years ago but was rebuffed by the voters. He was only trying to bring the true reality to the situation.

Key bored warrior. said...

The EU does not take all our revenues and then give us back a reducing block grant, that would be London.

The EU does not tell us we cannot hold a referendum with out their permission that would be London.

The EU does not tell our athletes we cannot compete in the Olympics as a Scottish team that would be London.

The EU does not tell those said athletes that they will learn the UK national anthem and sing it that would be London.

The EU does not tell us that we cannot fly the Saltire at Hampden our national football stadium that would be London.

The EU does not order our soldiers to invade foreign nations illegally and sacrifice the lives of out young service people that would be London.

The EU does not use our airports to service extraordinary rendition flights to foreign torture chambers using information supplied by MI5, that would be London.

The EU does not charge energy providers in Scotland extortionate amounts to connect to the UK grid and then give subsidies to providers in London, that would be London.

The EU does not operate scams such as the Crown Commissioners to charge Scottish seafarers for the use of their own sea bed and then send the money to London, that would be London.

The EU does not take money from the national reserve fund to pay for London's new sewage system, and so avoiding paying the devolved nations consequential's under the Barnett Formula, that would be London.

The EU did not operate the same scam to fund the Olympics in London, that would be London.

The EU did not keep secret the McRone report, in the 70s that showed and independent Scotland would have one of the hardest currencies in the EU and would have an embarrassing surplus of revenues, that would be London.

Scotland has missed out on billions of EU funding because of London's rebate organised by Thatcher, to the exclusive benefit of London.Scotland would be much better served as an independent country with in the EU, as the fishing debacle shows. Here is why:

Denmark, population 5,529,888 has 13 MEPs.
Scotland, population 5,222,100 has 6 MEPs.

A massive democratic deficit within the EU, which on secession would be rebalanced to a much stronger voice with at least 6 more MEPs. Scotland would also gain enough status as an independent country to conduct it's own negotiations, and not have England conduct them for us, making Scottish representatives sit in the corridor. England sold Scotland's fishing industry to gain better concessions for England.

English Pensioner said...

As an Englishman I kept out of your poll, but the result doesn't surprise me. I have quite a large circle of friends and acquaintances but I only know of one couple who are in favour of us belonging to the EU. I think that the politicians and the pundits are totally out of touch with what people think.
As is well known, I favour a three state United Kingdom, outside the EU, with each state being independent (as the US states) in most matters except defence, foreign policy, national policing, etc. A small UK parliament would deal with such issues, whether at Westminster or elsewhere

RMcGeddon said...

Try to stand back and see the bigger picture keyboard warrior. Your points are all pointless in the bigger picture.

Oh, the saltire episode at Hampden was due to the International Olympic Committee rules ( Seb Coe managed to clear things up there).
Ditto showing South Koreas flag instead of North Koreas. That was the IOC.

JRB said...

I never fail to be astonished that there are still people out there who think that the EU has anything to offer Scotland.

I say Scotland and not an Independent Scotland, for if we vote ‘Yes’ in the referendum and then stumble blindly into the EU we will have even less independence than we have today.

I hate to swear, but feel so strongly about this that I am forced to use the ‘F’ word –

Federation – there I’ve used it – but so has Jose Manuel Barroso.
In his annual address Mr Barroso called for a leap forward in political integration, monetary union, unified banking, harmonisation of economic and fiscal policies and the policing of national budgets.

To quote Mr Barroso -
“I call for a democratic federation of nation states that can tackle our common problems, through the sharing of sovereignty. In the age of globalisation pooled sovereignty means more power, not less.”

That is the future that awaits Scotland.

It’s not my choice.

James Kelly said...

"What this small poll does show is that the assumption all Scots are pro-EU is wrong."

To be honest, SR, I don't think it does show that. (Of course, there is no assumption that ALL Scots are pro-EU, but I presume you don't mean it literally.) Blogs tend to attract a readership that is broadly in line with the author's own views, so the result of this poll is pretty much as expected. If anything, the pro-EU minority (of which I was one) is somewhat higher than I would have predicted.

It may or may not be the case that Scots are not very divergent from the rest of the UK in attitudes to European integration, but it would take a scientifically-conducted opinion poll to establish that, not a self-selecting poll like this one. From my vague recollections of previous polling, Scots do indeed appear to be somewhat keener on the EU than our friends down south.

Key bored warrior. said...

"Try to stand back and see the bigger picture keyboard warrior. Your points are all pointless in the bigger picture."

Well that's me convinced then. It was the IOC what done it. I am pointless apparently.

Despite pointing you at the bigger picture McGeddon you missed deliberately, the democratic deficit, and the fishing tragedy, one of our most important industry's, you just stumble on any way.

The big picture is that London's heavy handed imperialist ruling over Scotland has been an unmitigated disaster. That is the big picture that more and more people are taking in to account. We were taken in to the EU by London in the first place. To disengage from the EU at the same time as declaring secession from London is not practical, but the golden prize is that in future an independent Scotland will be able to make it's own decisions on the EU and everything else just like the small successful countries of the EU. Denmark is a perfect example. I don't hear the Danes pleading with Berlin to make their decisions for them and to send all their revenues there. It is the small independent countries of the EU that are the big success story, precisely because they make their own decisions, like Sweden who have decided not to join the Euro despite the Britnats insisting that Scotland will have to, whilst bizarrely and simultaneously, hooting that an Independent Scotland will not be allowed to join in the first place and any way if we are it will be under such draconian conditions that we will all have to live in caves and eat mud. The Britnats are now running around headless and totally discredited. Alex Salmond has got them exactly where he wanted them. London and Westminster are now redundant as far as Scotland is concerned. The continuous hooting and scaremongering screeching has become a pantomime worthy of a season at the Kings. In fact someone is actually writing a play on that very subject. I fancy the star will be one Joanne Lamont, who has gone down again with foot in mouth disease. She is even worse than Subway Gray. She has just written the death warrant of the union and London Labour in Scotland.

subrosa said...

I doubt if they do have choice RM because they chose their policy years ago before the bigger picture emerged. I could mention a few pieces of advice they received along the way but this isn't the forum for that.

At least Prescott listen to what the people said. We're walking blindly or strolling's maybe more accurate.

subrosa said...

KBW, the UK gives more to the EU than it receives in return. One of only two countries which does so.

Are you suggesting therefore that we shouldn't have to take our share of that deficit? Of course I know London doesn't play fair with our 'handouts' and that's one reason why I support independence.

As for our athletes not able to compete as Scottish, I think that's to do with the IOC because their only choice was to be part of Team GB.

The EU is gathering an EU military. I find that rather sinister and the UK will be involved. They will then have considerable control over what wars those of ours participate in. No opt out for countries that don't support their decisions.

RMcGeddon said...

kbw..I doubt if any small independent countries in the EU make any of their own decisions. Greece and Ireland are run by troikas from Brussels. Spain and Italy will soon be joining them.
Being 'independent in Europe' just means being governed by Brussels rather than the present situation of Brussels via London.
I could spend all day talking about how Scotland has had it's fishing grounds devastated under the Common Fisheries Policy. Over £300Bn worth of fish hoovered up by foreign vessels. Fishing villages turned into ghost towns full of unemployed junkies.
Scotland would have even less control of it's fishing grounds if it stayed in the EU post independence. Decisions are made by the Commission, rubber stamped by majority voting in the EU 'parliament'. Good luck getting to the heart of Brussels and getting a Scottish Commissioner. They're selected by the elite and are there for life. Removed by ' death or forced retirement'. Sworn to secrecy or their pension is forfeited. I've read the Lisbon Treaty. It's all in there and it's not a good read.

SR..true about Prescott. But he was only the skirmisher. Testing the enemy defences. The Lisbon Treaty is all signed and sealed and sees us as constituencies. Just needs to be put into practice now.

footdee said...

"I say Scotland and not an Independent Scotland, for if we vote ‘Yes’ in the referendum and then stumble blindly into the EU we will have even less independence than we have today."

JRB ,I suppose this blingingly obvious but we are already in the EU ,unionists tell us we would no longer be a member if we vote yes ,I think they are wrong about that but in any case if we vote yes there is a much better chance of getting a referendum on the matter .
In or out we would still be better off ,in fact there is a group called SDA who want an independent scotland out of the EU .

and as for less independence in the EU as opposed to the UK just read Key Bored`s post

subrosa said...

You could have voted EP. Your opinion counts too even though you're south of the border. :)

subrosa said...

It's certainly not my choice either JRB.

subrosa said...

I have to disagree James. In the media I often hear the assumption that Scots are much more pro-EU than the English.

The results aren't what I expected because I had thought the majority of my readers were far more pro-EU than me.

I realise my poll isn't professional in any way, but that doesn't invalidate it.

Jo G said...

I found the survey very interesting indeed especially when, as you say Rosie, the general view presented is that Scots are just crazy for the EU. I felt alarm in the last few weeks reading about rulings made that no EU country can decree that any particular prisoner should remain in prison indefinitely. They also decreed that any prisoner sentence in such a manner can sue that member country. I believe that there are certain types of crime where the offender should never be released. For the EU to rule otherwise and enforce new regulations in areas like this, and others, is something I find unacceptable.

JRB I found your earlier post very uplifting. Very well said.

subrosa said...

Hi Jo, good to hear from you. Aye what you say is right and more is to come. The EU will never be content until we're all one great big melting pot.

James Kelly said...

"I realise my poll isn't professional in any way, but that doesn't invalidate it."

It certainly invalidates it in respect of drawing any conclusions about the views of Scots as a whole. It's true that the results may tell you something about the views of your readers, although I can't agree that those results are surprising given that anti-EU comments on your posts are fairly common.

subrosa said...

Yes James, I am anti-EU and that will continue. Many of my readers disagree with me about lots of issues and I respect their opinions.

If you're suggesting that this poll is invalid because it's turned out to be 50/50 then I think you're wrong.

In no way am I stating the poll is an accurate reflection of the whole of Scotland but at least it proves that 176 people don't want an independent Scotland in the EU - if nothing else. :)

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