Tuesday, 26 June 2012

Borders, Division And Upheaval

Late post this morning.  A few hours of weeding, cutting back daffodil leaves and clearing hundreds of yellowing bluebell leaves yesterday has taken it's toll and movement is slightly restricted at present. A rub down with medium sandpaper should do the trick and as the day progresses I'm sure seized muscles will relent.

Perusing the newspapers, I see that likeable and controversial unionist, Allan Massie is at it again with his headline: 'In Alistair Darling Alex Salmond has his match...'.  At least he concedes that an independent Scotland would be a reasonably prosperous small country, but then points out that in breaking the Union, the losses would outweigh the gains.

How I wish a group of independent economists, from both sides of the argument, would design spreadsheets showing these minimal gains and excessive losses.  Even something similar to a pros and cons list such as I write occasionally when I'm undecided, would do initially.

This morning it was a tweet from Caron which made me smile.

And Salmond says Darling's speech had words like borders, division and upheaval. What does he think independence means, for goodness sake?

I replied we already have borders throughout the UK or perhaps Mr Darling hasn't noticed. Admittedly the border between Scotland and England, at the main crossing points, isn't highly visible even though Scotland has a massive area called The Borders.

Division next.  There's been division between the north and south for centuries. Mr Darling's labour party did nothing to balance the scales and now David Cameron is suggesting benefits should be calculated on a regional basis.  A garage in London can cost the price of a three bedroomed house here in Scotland and Mr Cameron thinks the garage owner should receive higher benefits than the three-bed owner in Glasgow.  Division?  The only way in which that would be resolved is if Scotland had control of its benefit system.  Independence would provide that.

Upheaval - Most Westminster politicians don't like upheaval.  Their preference is the status quo with a little tinkering at the edges now and again, in order to justify their rather handsome salaries publicly.  The UK political system needs a radical reorganisation and the upheaval connected with Scotland taking independence could be a superb catalyst.  Another benefit for England.

The unionists will have to come up with something far more substantial an sensible if they are to gain any momentum in the argument. Making speeches using emotive language won't win them votes.


Michele said...

Emotive language Subrosa???? I thought you LIKED emotive language!!!

Re-read your post honey - it's full of emotive language (Don't mess with the communication trainer!!)

You are far more on the money when you called for a spread sheet of the pros and cons,; - as long as they list actually facts not half guesses, modelled outcomes and wishful thinking from both sides of the debate.

Other than that, how's life treating you? It's freezing cold here in sunny Queensland!!! regards M

RMcGeddon said...

I must admit I've often wondered how Lib Dems sleep at night with all of their broken pledges and brown nosing of any party willing to give them a sniff of power.
They dump policies in a flash if it means a seat in a limo.
like the rest of the Unionist parties the Lib Dems will be scurrying around like demented rats in an independent Scotland trying to get elected.
They don't do irony so will sleep soundly at night.
Oh and the last time I flew from Edinburgh to London I needed a passport.

JRB said...

The ‘No’ campaign, the so called unionists, believe in maintaining the United Kingdom, offering us nothing but ‘more of the same’, where Scotland, particularly the North of Scotland, is so far removed from Westminster as to be invisible.

That being so, and if they are serious about saving the United Kingdom then –
where was the Prime Minister of this United Kingdom?
where was the Deputy Prime Minister of this United Kingdom?
where was the Leader of the Opposition of this United Kingdom?

All totally silent, and conspicuous by their absence, seemingly distancing themselves from the ‘No’ campaign. (Why?)
Happy to leave the defence of the United Kingdom to an opposition MP and the three political light-weights that passes for the leaders of three Scottish political parties in an already ‘separate’ Scottish parliament.

Sean O'Hare said...

I think it would be difficult to compile the spreadsheet you suggest before negotiations on separation have taken place. Like any other divorce both parties must enter into it without knowing what the details are and will, therefore, be messy and disagreable.

Nikostratos said...

'independent economists,' yeah you have them and we will have 'Unionist economists'

'won't win them votes'

As all the reputable evidence shows a massive and increasing(thanks to the snp nonlaunch) support for remaining within the UK and against separation.

we will take that comment with a large pinch of salt

cynicalHighlander said...

Better Together – The +ve Case

I see Niko has gone walkabout again.

subrosa said...

Michele, I should have called it nonsensical emotive language which can be easily demolished. :)

Therein lies the problem. Will any spread sheet be an honest account?

Wet here today, thunderstorm all evening and little sunshine to cause flowers to bloom.

Otherwise fine thanks and hope you are too.

subrosa said...

The only person I know who is a libdem member is not renewing her membership next year RM. She's had enough. Having been a livelong adult member for decades that's not a good sign for them.

subrosa said...

Well said JRB. Hope you avoided the thunderstorm that we had here all evening. At least the air is clearer now though.

subrosa said...

Shouldn't outline negotiations be taking place now though Sean? Surely it's only fair both sides can put a case.

Or is it a matter of waiting for the outcome then saying, if the answer is no, "tough you get nothing more".

subrosa said...

Ha ha Nicko, good one though.

subrosa said...

Thanks for the links CH. :)

J. R. Tomlin said...

I thought you might be interested that Labour MP Russell Brown has a poll going on here. http://www.russellbrownmp.com/

As an American, it isn't my place to tell you whether you should vote "No" on the question: "Do you think Scotland is better together as part of a strong United Kingdom?"

But I suspect many of you have an opinion you'd like to express.

subrosa said...

Jeanne, that's most kind of you to highlight Russell Brown's poll. I'm sure it will be of interest to other readers as well as myself.

Many thanks and yes, you suspect correctly.

Brian said...


The Common Travel Area would continue as it would be too much bother to erect border posts.

As for divisions, I'm sure you're aware of house price differences within Scotland. I know of terraced houses in Burnley selling for well under £20k - which compares well with this lock-up garage in Morningside.

As for upheavel, compare the Irish Tax & Customs website with HMRC. Ninety years' independence and tax collectors share the same colour scheme!

I hope Scotland prints its own stamps.

subrosa said...

Brian thanks for these interesting links.

Aye there are divisions in Scotland. I know of houses here, which if they were lifted lock stock and bricks to Edinburgh or Glasgow, would treble or quadruple in price.

Oh we'd need our own stamps plus an entry in the Eurovision song contest. :)

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