SR: Not wishing to lose my holiday in the Highlands...... devo-max along with direct democracy would provide Scotland with all that it could wish - unless of course Scotland really does wish to 'go it alone'?
You won't lose your holiday WfW. :)You're quite right but I wouldn't be satisfied with that. It's a no confidence vote in our abilities to stand on our own feet.
As I gather, all content within any Devo Max, should it ever come to fruition from the combined talents of unionist Westminster and/or Holyrood who are required to produce such a masterpiece - will necessitate legislation via Westminster for implementation in Scotland in the first and perhaps on-going instance and not Holyrood as the inclusions are axiomatically 'reserved' matters. So any Devo Max will have considerable strings attached. Independence, although some robust negotiations will be inevitable, will not require Westminster legislation as our union Treaties were signed under International Law and Scotland's particular Treaty recognised the sovereignty of its resident people compared with the English having its sovereignty retained by parliament at Westminster. I hope I have my facts in order as I have checked with others more able than I - but I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.
@Clarinda. Everyone is talking about devo-max under the present system of democracy. Were direct democracy to be introduced Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland would have complete autonomy, with defence, foreign relations and say immigration shared. Politician numbers would be greatly reduced - for example the 'government' would comprise say 12, 3 elected from each parliament. Any decisions that the 'government' or the parliaments of each country would be open to challenge by the people by means of a referendum. Power comes back to the people.......!
Clarinda, thanks for clarifying some points to do with Devo Max. I've been confused for some time and there are so many opinions out there. The MSM don't want to touch this and therefore the detail has yet to be aired.
If only that were true WfW. I can't see Devo Max bringing much power back, but then if we don't have politicians who possess original thought and actions, then neither will independence.
Devo-max won't work because as far as Westminster is concerned, they'll only go as far as the Scotland Bill and since its Westminster who'd have to give up reserved matters (bats might also fly out of my own arse) Its never going to happen.
I like the direct democracy idea though with a much (very much) reduced UK representative council.
I also put this on my facebook, to mixed reviews. Hold on while I copy and paste one response I got...
"Backward-looking idealistic petty nationalism. Insular, unrealistic and racist."
I took exception to the racist charge (politics is not a race) the rest is a matter of opinion (not mine I should say.)
@pa_broon74 FYI Switzerland has a 'government' of 7. As the UK is much larger 12 should be adequate. The government will be elected by the members of each parliament and serve 4 years. There are some in Switzerland who have been members of the government for 20 years - which shows they are doing a good job of managing - because with direct democracy that is all politicians are managers of the people's wishes.
The same process works for local authorities (which would equate with a canton).
On talkconstitution,net I shall be publishing a draft 'working of government' and at the same time someone is also working on a draft constitution. I shall also be doing a paper on the limitation of government. All for discussion, however if you wish to partake of that forum it is necessary to register first.
SUBROSA - Please contact me if you have any ideas, stories or complaints: subrosa.blonde AT yahoo.co.uk Replace AT with the @ symbol. My profile can be viewed here.
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Powerful stuff, Rosie.
If you don't mind awfully, I will nick and re-post over at ma hoose.
Independence will be life-changing and I think all sides should be heard.
CR.
Powerful indeed.
Liked the Tom Harris spoof linked to when it finished too.
SR: Not wishing to lose my holiday in the Highlands...... devo-max along with direct democracy would provide Scotland with all that it could wish - unless of course Scotland really does wish to 'go it alone'?
Just a thought/suggestion.....
Ranty, take it easy. You'll be signing Yes before you know it. :)
It's well produced and well thought out pa_broon. Glad you liked it.
You won't lose your holiday WfW. :)You're quite right but I wouldn't be satisfied with that. It's a no confidence vote in our abilities to stand on our own feet.
As I gather, all content within any Devo Max, should it ever come to fruition from the combined talents of unionist Westminster and/or Holyrood who are required to produce such a masterpiece - will necessitate legislation via Westminster for implementation in Scotland in the first and perhaps on-going instance and not Holyrood as the inclusions are axiomatically 'reserved' matters. So any Devo Max will have considerable strings attached. Independence, although some robust negotiations will be inevitable, will not require Westminster legislation as our union Treaties were signed under International Law and Scotland's particular Treaty recognised the sovereignty of its resident people compared with the English having its sovereignty retained by parliament at Westminster. I hope I have my facts in order as I have checked with others more able than I - but I stand to be corrected if I am wrong.
Good link Subrosa. Sad to say but I have already stolen it and put it on my facebook :-0
@Clarinda. Everyone is talking about devo-max under the present system of democracy. Were direct democracy to be introduced Scotland, England, Wales and N. Ireland would have complete autonomy, with defence, foreign relations and say immigration shared. Politician numbers would be greatly reduced - for example the 'government' would comprise say 12, 3 elected from each parliament. Any decisions that the 'government' or the parliaments of each country would be open to challenge by the people by means of a referendum. Power comes back to the people.......!
Clarinda, thanks for clarifying some points to do with Devo Max. I've been confused for some time and there are so many opinions out there. The MSM don't want to touch this and therefore the detail has yet to be aired.
Good for you Gedguy. The more folk see it the better.
If only that were true WfW. I can't see Devo Max bringing much power back, but then if we don't have politicians who possess original thought and actions, then neither will independence.
SR: Devo-max under the present system of democracy is worthless....
Direct democracy is simply devo-max plus plus plus......!
To keep the UK as one can only be done under DD, the principles outlined above work right down to parish level.
Ah, I think you mean Referism WfW? I'm all for that as you know.
Devo-max won't work because as far as Westminster is concerned, they'll only go as far as the Scotland Bill and since its Westminster who'd have to give up reserved matters (bats might also fly out of my own arse) Its never going to happen.
I like the direct democracy idea though with a much (very much) reduced UK representative council.
I also put this on my facebook, to mixed reviews. Hold on while I copy and paste one response I got...
"Backward-looking idealistic petty nationalism. Insular, unrealistic and racist."
I took exception to the racist charge (politics is not a race) the rest is a matter of opinion (not mine I should say.)
@pa_broon74 FYI Switzerland has a 'government' of 7. As the UK is much larger 12 should be adequate. The government will be elected by the members of each parliament and serve 4 years. There are some in Switzerland who have been members of the government for 20 years - which shows they are doing a good job of managing - because with direct democracy that is all politicians are managers of the people's wishes.
The same process works for local authorities (which would equate with a canton).
On talkconstitution,net I shall be publishing a draft 'working of government' and at the same time someone is also working on a draft constitution. I shall also be doing a paper on the limitation of government. All for discussion, however if you wish to partake of that forum it is necessary to register first.
Sounds like a fine idea and one I'd prefer.
However, dislodging thise with vested interests who suckle at the teet of Westminster will not easily be moved.
I'll check out the site you mentioned for more info on this.
Thanks
I seem to be speaking in tongues now.
Without the aid of wine too.
Oh well, only a matter of time I suppose.
;-)
I can understand you pa_broon. Maybe that should be a warning to me. :)
In fact WfW's site is super and although it's about English politics they're a kind bunch and don't mind a few Scots around.
Won't do any harm joining anyway. I have.
SR: You really are very kind! *blushes*
I don't have blushes these days WfW, only flushes. :(
Wow!
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