Wednesday, 15 September 2010

The Hype About Tomorrow





It's not my intention with this post to upset any of my Roman Catholic readers, but I do think the hype surrounding the Pope's visit to the UK, which starts in Scotland tomorrow, hasn't done the Catholic religion any favours.

The BBC announced earlier that 65,000 will turn out to hear the head of their church speak, yet there have been several articles which contradict this number. The capacity has been reduced from 100,000 to 85,000 according to the BBC a few days ago, and now 65,000 because of the slow take-up of tickets.

Tonight Channel 4 broadcast an item stating that Catholics priests, who have served prison sentences of over 12 months for child abuse, are still within the confines of the church and entitled to use their titles. The Catholic church insists these men are no longer involved in communities but they miss the point don't they? Why do they think they, as a religion, are better equipped to deal with child abusers than our police and probation services?

Pope Benedict was part of the hierarchy of the Catholic church when these decisions were made yet there are no records that he protested. Survivors have called for the Pope to hand over all information regarding child abuse within the church, but I feel they're onto a loser. The Catholic church has no intention of coming clean where their priests are concerned. Why should they? If they did decide to do so then they would be signing a warrant for their own demise and nobody is foolish enough to do that - least of all the biggest religion business in the world.

A key Pope aid has pulled out of the visit to Britain after calling the UK a 'third world nation'. In an article for the German magazine Focus, headline 'Third World Land' Cardinal Kasper hit out at the atmosphere of 'aggressive atheism' in Britain and said 'Christians were at a disadvantage. When you land at Heathrow you think you are in a Third World land." No wonder he's opted out of the performance.

Will this state visit boost the Catholic church's coffers? In the short term yes because 65,000 people have paid to hear him speak in Glasgow and he intends to do another couple of shows in England before he returns to the comfort of his empire, but I do feel that many Roman Catholics now have doubts about their religious leaders. Who wouldn't, when they refuse to allow women anywhere near their hallowed halls? What do their fear from having women present in their hierarchy? So many questions and yet no answers.

At least this visit to the UK will ensure this is paid in full.

44 comments:

Seven Star Hand said...

Curious choice for a blog title. I have to assume you have some interest in the truth about ancient symbology?

I am the proverbial horse's mouth and I am now gifting you with the Vatican's worst nightmare, now realized. Christian Rome oppressed and massacred myriad souls over the previous age to prevent you from ever understanding what I have just made available to everyone.

Finishing the Mysteries of Gods and Symbols

Peace and Wisdom,

Seven

Conan the Librarian™ said...

You can take the boy out of the Hitler Youth, but it's much harder taking the priest out of the boy...

Mac an t-Srònaich said...

Please explain Conan...?

Btw, seems as if Paisley was in the cover-up business too.

As to Catholics taking offence... it's their choice to be offended or not. If their 'god' is that powerful, their objection to your or my comments won't matter one bit.

Key bored warrior. said...

A friend of mine being interviewed after an RTA by a police officer was asked if he was speeding. "No I was driving like a priest," he said. A passer by who stopped to nosy (Glasgow, Hope St.)said, "officer is it no illegal to drive with a boy on your knee."

The Catholic church will not recover unless they stop hiding these Preists and stop being so prehistoric by preventing Priests from getting married. Celibacy brings it's own baggage as we have seen.

The Old Statesman said...

Hello Subrosa,

I have recently started following your blog and I am impressed both by the quality of your entries and the regularity with which you update. Long may it continue!

I have written about the very issue that you discuss here today because I seem to be that rarest of creatures - a non-Catholic Englishman who believes that a visit from the Pope could be useful for all concerned as it would allow debates about such issues as secularism and child abuse scandals.

However, I believe that if is to become relevant once again, it is time that the Catholic Church joined the twenty-first century and took some responsibility for matters in its past.

Here is my take on the matter:

http://theoldstatesman.blogspot.com/2010/09/money-for-old-pope.html

OS

Jo G said...

One Scotland, Many Cultures? Obviously not. We have a very long way to go yet I fear.

subrosa said...

Thank you for the link seven.

subrosa said...

Glad to see you're back Conan.

subrosa said...

Aye Mac, I know our comments won't matter one bit.

subrosa said...

I'd agree the celibacy issue is one of the big ones they need to resolve KBW.

subrosa said...

Thank you for your kind words Old Statesman.

I've no objection to the man coming here either. He has as much right as anyone else to visit the UK as long as he conforms to our laws. For me saying sorry isn't enough though. I'm off to read your link.

subrosa said...

Being referred to as a third world country doesn't help Jo G. We already have many cultures in Scotland and all live peacefully side by side, at least from what I see here.

berenike said...

Ah, people, you are making me suspect that you have nothing informed or interesting to say on other matters by what you're saying about Catholicism.
Tonight Channel 4 broadcast an item stating that Catholics priests, who have served prison sentences of over 12 months for child abuse, are still within the confines of the church and entitled to use their titles

Given these men have already been in prison while being "within the confines of the church and entitled to use their titles", in what way are they now out of the reach of police and probation services?

William said...

It's a rock concert. The sort of thing the Rolling Stones or Elton John might do when they need a few bob. It is far removed from the teachings of Christ.

I see Salmond's making an arse of himself, too. He really doesn't know the meaning of restraint, does he?

berenike said...

The famous chasing off of the five thousand, not counting women and children.

Billy said...

William - There are no teachings of Christ - He did not exist. Christianity is carbon copy of the Egyptian pagan religion, Jesus is a carbon copy of the Egyptian sun god Horus. The cross with a figure on it has nothing to do with Christianity it is an ancient pagan symbol used by the ancients thousands of years before Christianity including the Egyptians.


Go watch Zeitgeist the Movie at www.zeitgeistmovie.com which gives an excellent account of this.

There are also hundreds of books on these facts an excellent one being Christ in Egypt by D.M.Murdock.

Religions like Christianity are dishonest conmen spreading lies as truth and are living the easy life off the money they have leeced out of the gullible people they are conning. We should not be listening to any of these people including the pope.

William said...

Billy, refute all the points made here - http://www.christian-thinktank.com/copycat.html - and then come back.

Christ did not live an easy life and certainly did not con money from his followers.

Jo G said...

Subrosa, we do not live peacefully when it comes to "religion" in Scotland and the worst thing is those who get het up about it - on both sides - do not practise any form of it. The media hostility towards this event, the negative coverage right up to yesterday said it all. Many Cultures? Clearly catholicism is not tolerated happily here by the vast majority. Scotland is still poisoned with intolerance.

The hostility towards this visit has been evident from the moment it was announced. He was invited to visit. He did not say, "I'm coming and your taxpayers are paying for it." He was asked here. The many references to "Hitler Youth" fail to recognise that young German boys were forced to join that organisation. Their families had no choice but to allow them to participate otherwise they would all have been taken away. That was the reality of Nazi Germany. Even so, Benedict was no Nazi yet too many are willing to claim he was.

The Third World comment has been made before of the UK in relation to the numbers who now pracise any sort of religion. When I first heard it used, a few years back, it was along with another term: this was that the UK now had "missionary" country status for many of the different Christian faiths. That puts an entirely different context on the remark in my view. I do not excuse the fact that it was open to interpretation by the way it was said yesterday.

I am very proud of the welcome the Queen extended to Pope Benedict today. The bitterness of others was put to shame listening to her.

The Catholic Church has serious problems to address and you may rest assured that ordinary members of it intend to ensure they are fully addressed. This is ongoing, believe me. But the demonisation of priests in general is despicable. The vast majority are committed to doing the job they are meant to do and they are good people, devoted to all God's people. They are NOT all paodophiles as some would like to claim.

Finally, those who reject all religion have the right to take that view. What they are not entitled to do is to show the level of intolerance they direct towards those with spiritual beliefs. Tolerance is the key for all Subrosa. Secularists who show deep hostility to this visit do their image no favours. They claim to represent democracy, freedom and more. They claim to reject "dogma". Oh yes? They are well armed with piles of their own dogma which they currently never tire of forcing on everyone else by insisting that those with faith are idiots and worse. That is not tolerance and any group which functions in such a way is dangerous. And anyway, if its all a pile of nonsense, why are they so afraid of it and why are they so determined to destroy it?

Jo G said...

The other thing is that my current concerns for the poor, for the desperate in society increase daily when I listen to representatives of the current UK government as they announce more and more ways to make sure the situations of such groups worsen steadily in the immediate future.

These are the people ALL of us should be turning on and demanding that they are looked after. "Family" today is a word with many different connotations and for the many children living in worst-case scenarios their lives are unimaginably awful. They are neglected, abused and mistreated by their own flesh and blood. They don't matter. In many situations "older" children are looking after their younger siblings.

All the signals from London suggest the plight of these groups will get worse because funds to help them will vanish. Scotland will, of course suffer, when our block grant is reduced and Councils will take monies from Social Work Departments. With others like the Church of Scotland the Catholic Church in Scotland is working to deliver food, warmth and comfort of some kind to those who have nothing and nowhere to go. Meanwhile Westminster, and our new government, show no concern whatsoever. Those who brought about this recession and the consequences of it have escaped justice. The poor are now the main target and those with the poor in their sights are the politicians. All of us should unite to condemn this and remember that when we take on issues like that religion doesn't count. Not if we all have the same aims which is to create a just and fair society. Harbouring hatred towards different groups will achieve only division and leave us all weakened.

Salmond has made no fool of himself today. Rather he has shown respect during what is for him, a State occasion. I am proud of him and it is sad that the sight of him in papal tartan will lead many in Scotland to respond in the most bigoted way.

William said...

Jo, no self-respecting Christian should have anything to do with the Pope and his entourage. Trust in Christ alone.

Salmond should have recognised that he does not represent an RC country and kept his trap shut. There is no stopping him sometimes, though.

subrosa said...

Oh berenike, surely you know the answer to your question? Religions always protect their own and they aren't treated by the authorities in the same manner as the man in the street.

subrosa said...

Oh William, a controversial comment as ever.

subrosa said...

Don't count women and children berenike, particularly women. They have no place in the 'big' religions which are completely patriarchal.

subrosa said...

Haven't read that book Billy. I sounds like one which would be worth downloading onto iBooks. I'll see if it's available.

subrosa said...

Jo G, I live in the east as you know and I don't sense any tensions whatsoever within religious communities here. While I appreciate there is a very small RC population here, when I was a child it was noticeable that the RC church segregated 'their' children but the schools still inter-related in many ways.

According to one report this morning (believe it or believe it not), it was Tony Blair who initiated this visit initially. Then the former SoS for Scotland carried it further. I've never mentioned Hitler Youth in connection with the present Pope as I know too much about its history.

In some ways I can agree with the Third World comment, especially if you arrive at parts of Heathrow or Standsted. They're so run down and filthy, but it wasn't a clever comment for someone to make really.

The Queen's job is to welcome those who are on a State Visit and she has always done so with dignity and courtesy.

Ah tolerance. That's becoming an overplayed word these days. Do I have to be tolerant of actions I find offensive and/or a threat to my country and its safety? There's a level of tolerance where questions must start to be asked.

Live and let live is a how I live my life, but if I consider anyone a threat to me or mine, I will do everything in my power to fight against it. I'm not as tolerant as to have 'hit me again' written on my forehead.

Religions are just as good as politicians for keeping people poor. The Catholic church won't permit the use of condoms and thus millions of children are born into poverty world-wide.

Salmond did ok and spoke for, what I would hope, the majority of Scots regardless of their religious beliefs.

subrosa said...

William, Roman Catholicism is the second largest religion in Scotland. Its history spams centuries. We should respect people's beliefs even though we may not agree with them.

Billy said...

People of faith do not believe what they believe - they believe what they are told. They are told lies by liars so that is what they believe.

William - Jesus did not exist - he is an exact copy of the Egyptian sun god Horus, all his attributes and sayings are exactly the same as Horus. The Virgin Mary is an exact copy of Horus's virgin mother Isis-Mery. John the Baptist is an exact copy of the Egyptian Anup the Baptiser etc. I could go on but Christianity even has a practice copy of the Horus myth in the Old Testament with Joseph before they settled on Jesus.

All of the above has been documented by all the ancient historians and on the ancient Egyptian monuments - Joseph/Jesus has been documented by no-one.

William said...

Billy, I know you believe your opinion to be radical but it is, in fact, a hoary old chestnut that has been refuted many times over and is about as credible as Erich von Däniken's theories.

Jo G said...

William, Salmond represents SCOTLAND, NOT JUST PROTESTANTS IN SCOTLAND! And incidentally Catholics born here are every bit as Scottish as you are! Protestants are not in any way superior and don't ever forget that.

Your language speaks volumes and sums up beautifully all that is wrong with the psyche running riot in too many Scots. Your approach is nothing new and no doubt you would have catholics back in the days when they had to hide or be murdered?

Salmond is First Minister and did Scotland proud. He was participating in a state visit, that is what this is. We have hosted war criminals like Bush in the past, the guy who took us to war, illegal war at that, in Iraq. We had a Chinese leader here whose list of crimes against human rights was the length of the Mall!

Christians as a group have beliefs and they are free to express them. Those secularists who believe they have the right to call us "liars" are the ones who need to ask themselves some very searching questions. If that's their idea of freedom they can keep it. And freedom is not what they represent: it is something else entirely and it isn't healthy.

And Billy, Christ sent his disciples to spread the good news. That is where the Christian message came from. It was what they were meant to do. No one is forcing you to listen.

Billy said...

William - Nothing to do with opinion but facts and history.

The fact is Horus is documented by all of the ancient historians and on all the ancient Egyptian monuments - Fact.

Jesus has not been doumented by one single ancient historian - Fact.

Jesus is the one that has been refuted by all of the above because it is just the same story as Horus and hundreds of other such pagan myths such as Mithra going back thousands of years prior to the myth of Christianity. It just so happens that they copied the Egyptian one as being the most relevent religion at the time - same story different characters.

It is all to do with the zodiac. Jesus represents Piscies - The Two fish who is going to be followed by a man bearing a pitcher of water, Aquarius. Jesus, Horus, Mithra etc, etc represent the Sun - that is what people going to church etc are worshiping - The Sun.

Billy said...

Jo G

Christ never sent anyone to tell anyone any such thing. Christ dd not exist fact!

The Christian church is peddling ripped-off pagan myths as fact, brainwashing and lying to people in order to get them to join their cult.

When I hear liars trying to con and pass of lies to others then I am quite entitled to pass comment on those lies.

The day they teach the stories of Horus and Mithra etc in schools on an equal footing to the Christianity myth is the day I will listen to the religious.

Jo G said...

Billy, I respect your right to express a view but I do not accept your right to tell me your version of the facts. Just be content that you have a problem with Christianity and accept that. That's what I will do.

William said...

Billy, more light reading - http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm (James Hannam, PhD in History of Science, Cambridge; Masters in Historical Research, University College London).

Jo, I do believe RC's are in error here and embarrass themselves with their antics over the Pope. This does not mean I wish to murder them. I wish they would come back to Christ, in fact.

Jo G said...

William, whatever. And God bless you despite your contempt for people of a certain religion. That is the real embarrassment in this great country of ours where too many would too readily go back to the days of persecution and death.

Jo G said...

"......are worshiping - The Sun."

I disagree. Don't know why so many people buy that paper myself. Must be the boobs on display on Page three. ; )

Jo G said...

How sad is it that so many "Scots" reject a sizeable proportion of the Scottish population as "Scottish" simply because they are of a particular religion. ~The place of birth is irrelevant, the love of Scotland is too: only the religion counts. Yes: sad, sad, sad. One Scotland, many cultures? Not now. But I hope not never.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Christianity is a mishmash of older religions for sure, and not just from Egypt.
Odin was hung from Ygdrasil, the world tree and pierced with a spear.
Goth troops fighting in the late Roman legions who converted to Chritianity, could convert their valuable amulets of Thor's hammer into a Cristian symbol by simply hanging them upsidedown and calling them a crucifix.

There are many, many more examples.

subrosa said...

Billy, one man's liar is another man's truth teller.

subrosa said...

As I've said Jo G, I can't understand it at all although I do think much of the myth-telling is fed to youngsters from birth. First time I was ever aware of it was at a football match when there was an argument at the side of me by two lads. One lad kept repeating 'My Dad says so' - so therefore he believed it, whatever it was. I suppose he still does to this day, sadly for him.

subrosa said...

I've several books on the subject here Conan. I think I've yet to get to grips with three of them because I've a hopeless memory for names. Maybe ought to dust them down...

Jo G said...

"I can't understand it at all although I do think much of the myth-telling is fed to youngsters from birth."

Yes indeed Subrosa but I do hope you include both sides there, because in Scotland an awful lot of hate is handed down from birth!

Billy said...

Jo G

It is not my version of the facts - it is the facts!

Christianity, like the other religions have nothing to do with facts - they are exact copies of the Egyptian Horus myth that has been documented by all the ancient historians just like Mithra etc.

Funny how Jesus just happens to have all the same attributes of Horus (and Mithra etc) and if he was famous in his time that not one ancient historian documented him. Funny how the Virgin Mary has all the same attributes as the Egyptian goddess and mother of Horus. Funny how John the Baptist ha all the same attributes as the Egyptian Anup the Baptist. Funny how the story of Noah is the exact same story as Gilgamesh etc etc etc.

Funny also as Conan mentions the cross had nothing to do with Christianity, it is an ancient pagan symbol especially with a figure hanging from it being crucified thousands of years before christianity. It wasn't used in Christianity for the first couple of hundreds of years of that religion.

Funny Christianiy was not the first religion to have commandments handed down to a man up a mountain from God.

The 10 Commandments were also copied from the Egyptian pagan religion.

Dear! Dear! I could go on and on but some people would rather be lied to by religions rather than read the truth from the historical record that wasn't written with the object of conning anyone.

subrosa said...

I was doing my best to be diplomatic there by saying myths Jo G. Must try harder. :)

Jo G said...

: )

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