Thursday, 26 August 2010

Electronic Crime Force Launched

Of course the internet needs to be 'policed' but the latest new 'force' has cause for concern.

Two US Secret Service agents will be based in the UK to work with SOCA's Electronic Crime Task Force investigating transnational cyber crime.

United States Secret Service agents will be working here from 2011. According to the report the www has increased the potential range and speed of many types of crime. Surely they know those of us who use computers are aware of that. Crime has been part of the internet since it was invented. We don't need experts from the US to reside in the UK to help us.

But why are we paying for American 'experts' to be based in this country? Why are only American experts coming here? The internet, correctly used by security services, doesn't require the presence of individuals. America isn't the only country who has intelligence, but we will be paying for their salaries, accommodation and luxuries most of us only dream of.

Once again Britain positions itself with America and ignores the rest of the world including Europe of which our politicians seem so fond. When we wake up and realise many other countries may have superior systems to detect electronic crime, then I'll realise we have a democratic government - as if as they say. In the meantime the UK will continue to be the sidekick to the US. Auch I despair. More waste of my taxes.


Anonymous said...

Britain is, more or less, the 51st state, with all the independence of maybe Wyoming or New Mexico.

If we had to good common sense to align ourselves with Denmark, Norway or Sweden, for example, maybe we'd end up having better lives.

We're not Americans in Scotland. Our attitudes are far more European in nature. The English do, it is fair to say, lean more to the American way of doing things, but we are not the English.

WR is 'cobbers', which is very nearly 'cobblers'!!!! Maybe someone is trying to tell me something?

Joe Public said...

With the international nature of this interwebby thing, I wonder why they need to come here.

Couldn't SOCA just e-mail them the WWW links & follow it up with video-conferencing?

The article doesn't specifically state UK taxpayers will fund their trip, so I wonder for which country's benefit they're visiting?

If they're from a 'Secret Service', and we know they're coming, well.........

Surreptitious Evil said...

But the USSS ECTFs, having used myself them many times, are one of the most effective national anti-cybercrime groups.

We won't be paying for them - US govt rules don't allow this (as little as buying them a pint as a thank-you is banned - and enforced!)

Oh, sod it. It was you that posted this? Not some devious hacker?



The US hosts a huge proportion of the worlds websites. Many, if not most, of the fraudulent websites, especially the increasing number that are compromised legitimate sites are US hosted (especially since the takedown of the RBN.) Having somebody onsite who, when a complaint is received from a British citizen, has US law enforcement powers is extremely useful.

Europe - yes, thanks. EAWs, thought crimes, investigating magistrates and other human rights abuses. I'll take the Yanks, with their English common law heritage, thanks (even the FBI who, despite Ed's help were no help.) But that dates me.

subrosa said...

I think your WV is trying to tell many of us something Tris.:)

subrosa said...

The article didn't say the UK taxpayers would be funding their trip, but surely Joe who else would? They're here at our invitation so we must be funding their costs. Otherwise the US would be.

I may be wrong, but then again I'm a cynic.

Dramfineday said...

Mmmm..... fancy having a system that is clever enough to pick up words like BOMB and ISLAM and WHITE HONKIES and KILL and set alarms off. Yet the same systems will have the latest in virus guards, firewalls etc., built in. Question, while it's essential to chase nasty basket cases who intend to inflict physical mayhem, why is it limited to them? What about the cyberoiks(tm) who build and insert viruses, fake code and all the other nasties? That must go through the same processing centres surely eg., GCHQ etc. How about putting this wonderful machinery into protecting the plebs that help pay for it by riding us of the anti-social and criminal types that necessitate me having to sign up to (name your supplier of antivirus kit etc)? While the processors are madly whirring and seeking BOMB, ISLAM, WHITE HONKIES and KILL, some sneaky twats are stealing the world. Come on guys, Gary MacKinnon is a minor fish in what's going on, time to put the big bucks and your ideas into gear!

subrosa said...

Super comment Dram. As you know I lack technical knowledge but I have a friend who keeps a close eye on what goes on and he alerts me to these things.

No response from the UK government yet.

Joe Public said...

DFD sows the seeds of an idea.

In an endeavour to increase your international hit-rate SR, I hereby donate......


McGonagall said...

"In the meantime the UK will continue to be the sidekick to the US."

Junior partner surely?

cynicalHighlander said...

Nah 'Boot licker'

subrosa said...

Why thank you Joe. What else can I say?

subrosa said...

Of course McGonagall, what else? A subsidiary really aren't we?

Barking Spider said...

Ah yes, SR, but what are they really going to be spying on - dissenters like us disrespectful bloggers, perhaps, those of us who have easily worked out what Obama actually trying to do, we anti-New World Order, anti-totalitarian anti-communists?

subrosa said...

That did cross my mind BS and they're nearer to the core than being across the Atlantic. Or is it just a jolly for them to have a few years in the UK at our expense? Would be good to know.

One thing's for sure, I doubt if they'll be paying taxes here. There will be some arrangement.

muddypaws said...

You wouldn't know would you, or perhaps you'd ask your friend who knows about these things, whether or not Mr Cameron has re-affirmed the Wilson Doctrine?
As far as I am aware it was re-affirmed by Gordon Brown when he was PM., but i can find nothing to show that our current PM has. On the matter of the Wilson Doctrine, what are your thoughts on extending it to include not only MPs and Peers, but MSPs and the like in the devolved governments of the UK?

subrosa said...

No I don't know if Cameron has re-affirmed it muddypaws but perhaps someone will answer.

Personally I see no reason for it. Why should MPs etc be different to anyone else?

It could be a good subject for a post couldn't it.

Surreptitious Evil said...

Having used the services of the USSS ECTFs before, they are very useful indeed (and a little less rule-bound than the FBI were when I was actively investigating such things on a daily basis.)

Although the US is not the source of the majority of the world's cyber-crime, it does hosts much of it (especially with botnet hosting), even more transits it and US companies do provide much of the internet - especially the free side. International Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties are a complete pain, therefore having a US Law Enforcement officer on side or, because of time differences, on site is a great time-saving advantage in helping to track criminals.

To give you some idea - if a Secret Service agent wanted to find out our hostess's identity (or that much of it that she has divulged to Google / Blogger), it is a quick phone call and then a faxed authority. For a British police officer - of whatever jurisdiction or agency - it is several weeks of saga, probably failing and then eventually circumvented by calling a mate in the States and asking them to put the request in. Not, to stress the point, that I'm accusing her of anything more than a knee-jerk reaction!

Paying for US government officers? Strictly against US law - you can't even buy them a beer as thanks - I know, I've tried. Taxes, right. Yes, they'll be paying taxes in the US - just like British government employees continue to pay UK tax when they are posted abroad.

But, hey, just pan the Yanks - easy target?

As for Europe - would you believe that there is co-operation? Surprising, isn't it. Pesky things like the EAW and European Investigation Order are formalising what has been mutual assistance. And things like the CTOSE project existed to try to help iron out the differences between common and code law jurisdictions and the different rules of evidence.

I'd note that SOCA's predecessor, the NHTCU, actually had a couple of officers based in Russia for a year or so - as 'guests' of the Russian police, helping them track down some of the Russian web criminals and have also helped the Nigerian police on an extended basis.

subrosa said...

Thanks for all that information SE. I know how easy it is to track someone in this era of digital communication.

I also know that there is no real need for any SSAs to be physically present in any country unless they just prefer the face to face system. I would too.

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