What is it about Andy Murray that divides the UK so much? Yesterday a fellow blogger went for the jugular, citing his 'refusal to bow to the Queen' as the reason. Lurking in the background was the years-old comment he made during banter with Tim Henman on a TV show, when he joked he'd support 'anyone but England' in some football match.
For those who missed it yesterday, Andy Murray was interviewed after his first match at Wimbledon. The interviewer was good enough to bring up the question of his refusal to bow to the Queen and it was firmly rebutted. Anyone could see the lad was visibly upset at the lies being pedaled around the MSM and he said so. His explanation was that protocol had changed recently with regard to addressing royalty and he had only asked the new procedure.
There is an obvious animosity towards the sportsman in England yet he's been in the finals of two Grand Slams this year and performed well throughout his career. He is only 23 and has many years of professional tennis ahead of him.
He's not a celeb he's a sportsman. He doesn't have the PR skills of many politicians or the smarmy casualness of Piers Morgan (thankfully) but as a top rated tennis player he is great entertainment.
I'd suggest if the anti-Andy brigade want to see boors, they could do a great deal better by looking much closer to home. Ooops, they're in South Africa. I wish them well today!
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29 comments:
I think Murray has been tarnished (unfairly or not) by the ABE brush and he's taking part in a Tennis tournament in England, despite it being billed as a British event. Problem is now that he'll never really get over his initial gaffe even if it was a joke (and it was) and the UK press (English division) have been looking for any excuse to do him down.
Btw, I wouldn't bow to the Queen either.
Well said QM. Murray said yesterday he would be bowing, he had never suggested otherwise.
It's a sake of sour grapes. If Tim Henman had said 'anyone but Scotland' there would never have been a murmur except to say it was a joke.
S/R I really don’t care if Andy doesn’t want to bow to Brenda. If he is a republican and his principles are that important to him, good for him I say. Not like many a fair weather republican who goes weak at the knee when Brenda and her odious brood hove into view or the thought of a bauble from the British empire or a seat on the red benches is mentioned. But somebody needs to tell Andy that if he is a proper republican he cannot accept a knighthood should his tennis prove good enough to actually win Wimbledon for this country (UK) for the first time since the 30s. I reserve special ire for the canting Kinnocks who are now both milords despite preaching republican doctrine all their lives.
Bowing is a sign of subservience.
Some years ago 'the palace' very generously said that it was no longer compulsory to bow to "senior" members of the royal family (I wonder what the punishment would have been prior to this generous move into the 20th century?)
If Murray feels that he is inferior to the Queen he should bow; if he feels equal to her, of course, he should not bow. If he feels, however, that his knighthood would be put in jeopardy should he fail to bow, he might want to rethink that.
I think most people treat the ABE thing as light-hearted. I mean I know it means a HUGE amount in sponsorship to the players, some of whom already earn in excess of quarter of a million pounds a week, but that apart, it's only sport. It is still sport, isn’t it?
The serious side of it is that the English do have a tendency to go on and on and on and on when they win anything, and as we have to share their television and radio services, not to mention their newspapers, it does become tedious.
I suppose in fairness that the Scots might be the same if they ever won anything......
Some of us in the 'Anti-Andy camp' dislike him because we find his style of Tennis boring, and highly un-entertaining. I'll say the same thing about Nadal and a number of other 'top' players.
We also find his attitude in interviews and towards fans (particularly after losing) to be very disappointing - moody and grouchy is no way for a person who has the potential or even already is a role model to behave. He should show good grace and sportsmanship in the way that Federer, Roddick or (yes) Henman do/did.
Then again maybe it isn't his fault. Just look at our last Prime Minister...
I’m sure that some people in the “anyone but England” campaign in the world cup do so because they find England’s playing lumpen and wooden and let’s face it, it is!
I'm not keen on England winning and that is not because I am ant-English its because they have already won and I would rather a country that has not lifted the world cup before won. It would be great for an African nation to win especially South Africa (for Nelson Mandela) or the USA as it would be a great fillip to the sport there.
@Munguin
There are those of us in the ABE camp that want to see England out of the World Cup asap, simply because we dislike (in my case with a passion) football and want to see some news coverage of the Rugby and Cricket (where our national side are doing alright). We are lucky if we get 3 pages between the two sports during a normal week (compared to 7 or 8 for football) so the World Cup really does scrap that completely.
williamsjk: you are in a lot of anyone but... camps.
Don't you think that those people who do like football or like Andy Murray's tennis have as much right to watch it, as you do to watch rugby?
Yep. If I take a major disliking to someone or something then I tend to support those that oppose it.
As for their right to watch and enjoy either football or Murray, yes they do have that right. However that right ends at the point where those of us who don't want to do so lose out on our alternatives. For example the recent Rugby tour of Australia received barely any coverage on the news because it was all spent taling about the World Cup. The same goes for the recent Bangladesh cricket tour of this country, the England v Scotland match or the start of the Australian cricket tour this weekend.
As for the Tennis, it isn't so bad this year - the 'patriotic' support for Murray in the press hasn't really happened due to the obsession with the World Cup. But at the same time, the rest of Wimbledon is being pretty much ignored as well. Were it any other year Federer's match on Monday would've been front page news, instead it gets relegated to the inside pages at best.
I fully appreciate that the vast majority of people in England are more interested in football than my preferred sports - and that it should receive the most coverage, but when it comes to the BBC I really feel that to justify their licence fee they need to give a decent amount of time to other sports.
Nice one SR. When it comes to sport, the Scots, English and Welsh have always been partisan and I see nothing wrong with it. To equate that partisanship to politics is where I draw the line - sport is sport; politics is politics and never the twain should meet.
England have just scored against Slovenia - I hope you're celebrating with us :-)
I don't know if Andy is a republican, I've never heard him discuss the subject.
I compare any nod of the head to a military salute Munguin. They convey respect and show good manners. That's all.
Is opening a door for a woman subservience Tris? Is a soldier saluting the wife of another soldier subservience? (He doesn't have to do that btw, but many do).
I think Murray rocks, he plays with passion and he has put in the training. He may not be the most media friendly guy but sheesh, those attributes never did Henman any favours did they. As for the bowing to the Queen, I knew he would do it, it would be bad manners other wise. End of.I don't think this year will be Murrays year but he's young and I will be rooting for him none the less. Once Federer is out of the way there is only him and Nadal. I'm more than happy to wait for that final.
Mummy x
Moody and grouchy? Auch well williamsjk that's your opinion. Disappointed maybe and a few times he's been overcome by emotion.
Your last sentence wasn't required. You bashed the Scots enough without it. :)
You're too practical Munguin. :) If America won I think that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Since when has any Murray tennis match lost you the chance of watching a sport you like williamsjk?
I think you're pulling my leg.
Oh indeed GV I'm celebrating with you. Just off to even give some of my hard earned money to that nice Englishman, Mr Tesco. :) How much more friendly can I get?
I don't like him, mainly because I'm Scottish and he's Scottish and apparently it's the law up here that I support him!
It's the same law that says I should love Irn Bru, tattie scones and plain bread. I don't!
S/R; I didn’t think we were talking about a nod of the head, like you might do to a neighbour you pass in the street, nor a military salute to a commanding officer but a bow by a subject to a monarch in a civilian setting. And in that respect if Andy does not want to show subservience then good for him I say. Subservience is what it is and what it was designed to be, not nodding to a friend or acquaintance, not showing respect. If it were anything else then it should be reciprocal, as it is in say Japan, and Brenda should bow back.
I don't really think it's quite the same SR.
I open doors for people who come behind me (regardless of their sex) because it's common politeness. I’d expect other people to do the same for me.
Bowing to the Queen or Mrs Parker Bowles is different. They don't bow to you.
Bowing/curtseying was designed to put you off balance as you approached the royal personage. It was hard to knife them or spear them if you were half way to the floor. (Well, that’s what I read anyway.)
They did not bow to you, thus showing their superiority. Saluting (which may well have been designed originally for the same sort of thing. It's hard to shoot or stab someone when your hand is on your forehead) is obligatory.
I know that the military is different for good reason. I guess that a soldier saluting anyone that he doesn't have to is friendly and genuine respect. For the rest, it actually has nothing to do with respect. Even if you HATE your senior, you still have to salute, and it is mutual (I think?).
I'm not denying that in the old fashioned list of precedence in Scotland the Queen is the top of the list and then all of her family and their female spouses and then the Presiding Officer and then the First Minister, etc... And I'm at the bottom, just under ald Mrs McTumshie from the chip shop...
But I bow to none of the rest of them, so although I think the Queen's a nice old dear, I'd never dream of bowing to her.
I see where you're coming from Tris and appreciate your point which is very valid.
We bow to acknowledge our dead - unfortunately it's little compared with many other cultures.
I too have read that's why so you're on the right track there.
In the military things are different. The lesser rank acknowledges the higher rank first and then the higher rank salutes. It's a two way thing. For any military person to publicly salute a dependent (wife, mother, sister etc) is their choice. They have no obligation to salute a civilian. Does that explain it or is it as clear as mud? Possibly. :)
Munguin, you can possibly correct me, but I thought the modern 'bow' was equivalent to a nod of the head. Haven't the days gone (thankfully) where men had to bow from the waist and women curtsey?
I read earlier female tennis players are practicing their curtsies. Disgraceful when the royals are grasping my taxes - I yours I suspect.
Auch Rab, I like him. I also liked Henman until he was overhyped, although the laddie didn't cause that.
It's nothing to do with me being of Pictish decent my enjoyment of Andy's play of course. :)
S/R my understanding is that you may show deference to the queen by a bow of any description, as low as you want, or just a nod of the head. Or indeed not at all. I’m a republican, therefore, I would not bow at all no matter how much of a storm in a tea cup the gutter press may like to whip up over it. That does not mean that I would not bow if I were laying a wreath on the cenotaph to honour the dead nor does it mean I would not salute my commanding officer if I were in the armed forces.
As far as women are concerned I understand that they don’t have to curtsey they can simply bob or nod their heads as well. Or they can do like Mrs Thatcher did and curtsey so low it looked like she was about to sit on the pavement.
I just don’t think Andy Murray should be lambasted for having republican sentiments (if he does) as far as I am aware it’s not against the law yet.
Munguin, your knowledge of protocol with regard to civilians is far superior to mine, so I accept your information completely.
Nope SR. That was totally clear ta. Excellent explanation
I got all the lowdown on what to wear, how to bow and what to say/not say, when to stand, and how to stand ad bloody infinitum when I was invited to Holyroodhouse to meet Charlie.
Something like...."The first time His Royal Highness adresses you you reply....blah blah blah, your royal highness, after which you must refer to him as sir. You must never broach any subject, or ask His Royal blah blah, any questions, it is He, who decideth the subject matter of which you will spake... grrrrrrrrrrrrr. And I pay them!!!!
Needless to say, I declined the invitation. No-one tells me what to wear, when to speak and so on at a party, so I stayed at home and let someone who was impressed with all the fa la la go instead.
I seem to remember I spent the day harvesting garden produce.... MUCH more satisfying than scraping and bowing [and from what I've heard, the food (a big fat cheese sandwich and a huge mug of strong black coffee) was much better!]
G'night! xx
Ah Tris, now, if you'd joined the military the salute would have covered everything. No bowing or scraping then. :)
Lordy SR... they wouldn't want me... I'm falling to bits!
Many of them are too these days Tris. Even though you've still to run a certain number of miles every day.
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