What's happening in Edinburgh to make very popular bloggers deride Scotland? Edinburgh council are planning mandatory courses for bar staff to ensure they will never ask customers if they would like the 'same again' and are to be told to offer a glass of water instead.
The move has been introduced as part of the Licencing (Scotland) Act which comes into force next week and is aimed at tackling binge drinking.
I'm all for tackling binge drinking but I think this is about 39 steps too far. Who thought up this ridiculous idea? Not only does it insult professional bar staff, who will move to areas where they can demonstrate their skills, and most of their customers, it will reduce the number of people visiting pubs and they will be off to the supermarket to buy a 'cerry oot'. I know I'd certainly feel less than pleased if a pub asked me if I wanted a glass of water. I'd be wondering if I looked as if I was about to have the proverbial heart attack.
Let's stop this nonsense now. People who want to drink alcohol will drink it. I fully support the clampdown on supermarkets BOGOFs and also pricing on cheap alcoholic drinks, but to introduce a policy such as this is allowing the government/council to take over more of my freedom. That's not what I want in my country.
The better pubs and restaurants put bottled water on tables. The customer pays if the seal is broken. A far better idea would be to put jugs/containers of our lovely Scottish tap water on each table and change it when each customer leaves, at no cost to the customer of course. Let me say here that I always ask for tap water in restaurants as bottled water has a chemical taste to me.
There is quite a bit of hypocrisy going on here. We have the Scottish government doing their utmost (and shouting rather too loud now but that's another story) about Diegeo wishing to move their bottling plant yet we have Edinburgh council thinking they have the answer to our alcohol problem. They don't.
People really have to stand up and be counted about this as it is the thin edge of the wedge. Will Edinburgers protest?
Source: Scotsman
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19 comments:
The success of this depends on the bar. A wine bar might see a polite smile and "don't be daft" as a response. In other pubs an early evening reply might question the barman's parentage and suggest a suitable orifice to insert the water bottle into. Later in the night a suggestion of water will probably skip verbals and go straight to violence.
So barmen won't ask and half of the point of the legislation will be lost. The other half of the point will be to raise stealth tax by fining non-complying bars. Enforcement officers undercover with landlords hit with fines every time their staff are caught forgetting to ask?
And considering that fish do absolutely everything in water then I feel safer with a pint anyway.
Copying Labour, on this occasion, with State nonsensical nannying.
Thanks for the link, Subrosa.
Just one point though:
"I fully support the clampdown on supermarkets BOGOFs and also pricing on cheap alcoholic drinks".
Why?
Alcohol isn't the problem, the people who take the proverbial are.
Why should we all suffer? Clamping down on promotions punishes us all collectively for the misdeeds of a tiny minority. Agreeing with such nonsense directly contravenes the concept of personal responsibility.
ASE, this makes a nonsense of bars but you're possibly right when you say fines may be involved.
Aye OR, surprising too as the council is SNP/libdem.
Perhaps it's my age DP, but to think some drinks are cheaper than water is encouraging youngsters to buy it.
How do you educate so many people about the dangers of using alcohol to excess? For years they've been preaching to school children but the problem's just become worse, so tackling it from the other end seems a reasonable thing to try.
We do have a serious alcohol problem here DP, with young people destroying their health.
Sorry, can't agree. You have swallowed a massive myth from the anti-alcohol lobby for a start. I seem to remember that you are rather sheepish about the smoking stuff too.
It is none of government's business to decide what we all do with our lives.
If you agree that government should be able to dictate any aspect of your life because some don't act properly, you're opening a great big can of worms.
Young people destroying their health? It is either up to their own conscience (and they have been given masses of correct information for decades) or it is up to the parents to educate them.
If you are arguing that they should be targeted for correction, then you may have a case, but why should we, who are responsible, also be made to pay because others can't exercise personal responsibility?
How few abusers does one need to instigate a blanket taxing of the entire population?
The measures your blog post is railing against are being implemented precisely because there are those who think that punishing the population is worth doing to save a few people who can't observe simple rules of life.
It's regressive to community as a whole to excuse wrongdoing as 'someone else's fault'.
Might as well ban 'Same Again' after all. Why not seeing as some might be harming their health by agreeing. Let's all suffer, eh?
I should add, love your blog, hope we can still be friends and all that. But just think you are badly misguided (brainwashed) in this case.
Oh yeah, and it's only my opinion, so don't blame everyone for what I say. ;-)
I've never been sheepish about smoking DP and I'm totally against the smoking ban as it stands. I firmly believe we should have gone down a similar road to the likes of Spain where businesses were given a choice to be smoking or non-smoking.
That's exactly what I am saying, somehow we need to protect the young because the softly softly approach just isn't working.
The reason I support the price increase on very cheap booze is because when I was young, alcohol was expensive and we couldn't afford to buy it often. Best deterrent that was. Of course today's youngsters have far more money so I'm happy to be told my reasoning is dated.
These few people who can't observe simple rules of life make the lives of some others sheer hell. NHS staff have a nightmare of a job at weekends but I've always said why don't police enforce our laws more and prosecute drunken behaviour. Shipping the drunks to A & E just isn't enough.
Government does dictate much of our lives DP, from telling us how fast we can drive to what we can put in our dustbins. It's when they interfere with private business that I consider it's completely wrong and that's what they're doing here with this water business. Of course businesses need to be regulated to some degree but this is a few degrees to far in the struggling pub industry where most businesses act very responsibly. The reason pubs have been targeted in this way is because they're sitting ducks. Far easier to fine pub landlords than ensure the police enforce the law by charging drunks isn't it.
No we shouldn't suffer because our younger generations want to damage themselves and I don't think increasing the price of cheap drink will affect most of the population. Sadly I don't think it will deter youngsters from buying drink either.
If they spent a night in the cells instead of on a comfy bed in A & E, that may do far more.
Auch DP, it would take a lot more than a good argument for me to stop reading your posts believe me.
Indeed, I may be brainwashed in this case, I accept that.
Aye I wouldn't dream of blaming anyone for your opinions, only you. ;)
Got a 'phone call from my youngest daughter - she was in Spain - having a cigarette and a pint in a bar - in a hospital!!! A friend had been head butted on a flight by an English ned - broken nose - blood all over - cops (English and Spanish) didn't want to know. Take him to the hospital and go for a fag and a pint. Civilized.
Beware the New Puritans.
I've never experienced a Spanish hospital scunnert but I'm told they are second to none. A friend sold up and moved there 10 years ago. The one thing she was concerned about was if their healthcare system was as good as the NHS.
A while later she said there was no comparison. The NHS is second rate.
She never mentioned having a drink and a smoke though and she insists on doing both.
I believe in freedom, and I hate the nanny state.
That said, personally, The smoking ban in pubs and workplaces has worked well for me, but that's because I hate the smell of smoke on me and my clothes. I can now go for a meal or a drink without coming home and having to wash all my clothes and take a shower. But that's a very personal thing. Previously I rarely went out for meals or for evenings in the pub.
That is, however, a very personal opinion, and one I accept that many people would not share.
As far as drink is concerned I think we need to do something to reduce the amount of alcohol consumed, particularly by young people. I agree that what they do with thier lives is their business, and that, if they are prepared to have liver problems in their 20s and 30s, it's got damn all to do with me.
On the other hand there is the problem of the violence that alcohol fuels, making the streets at night dangerous, or at least unpleasant for anyone who isn't roaring drunk; the fact that drunks clutter the A&E rooms at the local hospital and the vomit and urine all over the city centre on a Saturday or Sunday morning.
No matter how anti-nanny state we are, these things do affect us, and, whilst it is possible that some of them are exaggerated, I can say that I've seen all of them first hand.
Whatever we need to do, it certainly isn't ask adults if they would like a glass of water, but we sure as hell need to do something.
Agreed, tris. It's why I always say that we should specifically target those who actually cause the problem. Anything else is a waste of resources and a collective punishment on those of us who love a right shant but who do harm at all.
As for the smoking ban. I realise that you love it (clothes etc.), but that wasn't the reason it was brought in. It was ushered in on the back of a whopper of a lie, was implemented in a completely different form to that presented as a manifesto commitment, and there is no reason which stands up to any real scrutiny why something offering an element of choice shouldn't be considered. The one we have been landed with is wrong on so many levels. The good thing is that it will be the death of the Labour party, so it's not all bad. ;-)
Subrosa: Happy to agree to disagree with such a reasonable person as yourself.
Yes, my quip about not blaming everyone else for my remarks was meant to highlight that it's sily to punish everyone for the actions of a tiny minority. It didn't work, and I have given myself a right talking to about it.
Did you really say 'auch'? I thought only Gordon Jackson said such things. ;-)
You're quite reasonable yourself DP.
Yes it is silly to punish everyone because the tiny minority don't give a damn but do we let them kill themselves? At times I think yes.
I say auch quite a bit when I'm confused DP. In other words I use it most of the time. :)
I have just come back from Spain, yes the ashtrays were on the tables, where we were.
They have happy hour, they fight for business, a great time we had too.
Subrosa, I agree about the youngsters, but is it just alcohol? we know the illegal drug market is thriving, so is it fuelled with alcohol.
I do not feel though, we should all pay.
I do not understand why we should all be punished, they should use the law that exists to sort out the wrongdoers, it is like being back at school and having the whole class getting detention.
Great article/blog thank you.
Sorry if you get too postings, but strange things happen on this machine!
Morning vincent. I certain agree with you about the law. It's time these drunks were stuck in a cell rather than taxied off to the local A & E. Then what should happen is that they must pay a decent fine before they're allowed out.
Glad you had a great time in Espana, I might try to get there for a few days myself next month.
The British Institute of Inkeeping BII in Scotland reckon that the new licensing egulations have cost over 2000 jobs so far.
Makes the loss of the Kilmarnock bottling plant look rather small, and look at the political hoo-ha about that one, First Minister and all having their say.
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