Sunday, 28 June 2009

The Real David Cameron Speaks to Scots

BBC One Scotland are to broadcast 'The Search for Scotland's Soul' tonight at 10.20pm to mark the tenth anniversary of the Scottish Parliament.

By accounts in today's papers it appears David Cameron is warning Alex Salmond not to interfere in Westminster plans for Britain's Scottish-based nuclear deterrent should he become Prime Minister. He points out that defence is a matter for the UK Government, not Holyrood.

Not exactly a comment which will gain friends and influence people for Mr Cameron and I doubt it will gain many votes in Scotland.

Alex Salmond intends to use environmental powers available to Holyrood to prevent the regular shipment of Trident warheads and components by road north of the border. He said it was "perfectly legitimate for the parliament to try to exert these powers to influence what happens in Scotland".

This could be a interesting programme tonight. After all the friendly talk about how he wants to work closer with the Scottish government, we may now see the real David Cameron. Little difference from those presently in government in Westminster by the sound of it.


Munguin said...

David Cameron would promise you the moon on a stick if he thought it would get him the keys to number 10. The problem with that is everybody wants a different moon on a different stick. He wants Scots to think that he will play fair by them while at the same time appeasing the anti-jock little Englanders who think that Scotland is a county of England (Britain when things are bad or go wrong, or are good but Scottish and they want to claim them e.g. Andy) Murray). And of course the bigots who think that a colossal waste of money on nuclear weapons, that will never be used, keeps England as an important country on the Security Council; but of course they don’t want them just outside Tunbridge Wells, or indeed in their country at all. Quite a balancing act, but made so much easier by how crap Gordon Brown is.

subrosa said...

Morning Munguin, interesting development though from Cameron. Not so nicey nice now. It'll be interesting to see how Salmond plays it from here.

Goodnight Vienna said...

I understood from a trailer that it's on a quid pro quo basis so it depends what Cameron's offering in return to, I paraphrase, 'appease the anti-English little jocks' like Munguin. Hope you have a peaceful Sunday, SR.

RantinRab said...

Hmm, I don't really comment on matters to do with Fat Eck and the Scottish Gummint. I really don't know what to make of it all, to be honest.

British Unionist said...

Good morning Madam,

As one who frequently assents to or delights in your commentary about the present mismanagement of our country by the politicians, I'm somewhat dismayed by your and especially the other observer - 'Munguin's' - implicit folly. The world was conquered, so to speak, and so many marvellous heroes and innovations given it, by the United Kingdom of Great Britain comprised of English, Scotch, Welsh and formerly (all) Irish. Scotland would be nothing globally if it were independent, and England irreparably weakened by any division. Hume taught the world the wonderful system of empircism, Adam Smith showed us that free commerce opened the way to riches and civil liberty. Weren't they both British?

Finally, for the sake of order and our children's safety, note the unlawful madness of Salmond's intervention with the warheads. They are plainly articles of military defence, and not one single iota subject to the ludicrous pantomime performed at Holyrood.

Madam, I beg to remain, always,

Your British brother-countryman.

Vronsky said...

Just as there was never any chance that the English (let's call a spade a spade) parliament would let the Scots just walk away with the oil, neither will they let us close their submarine bases without a struggle. Scotland is ideally equipped for these nuclear monstrosities - deep water ports, close to the northern channels used by the Russkies, and a long way from London in case of accidents (although Jackie Baillie will tell you that nuclear accidents are impossible).

Labour has convinced itself that an end to the Union means an end to Labour, hence its visceral hatred of the SNP. The Tories have no such fears, and are much less sentimental about the Union than most people think. So Salmond has a strong hand. What would Cameron concede in return for a little dithering over the closure of bases?

Cameron must publically sound aggressive about this - but in private? If the Tories win there is scope for a deal which appears to preserve the Union but in fact is independence in all but name. Cameron simply dubs anyone who says the Union is over as a conspiracy theorist (that always shuts 'em up), he gets a quiet life, wins a stay of execution for the bases (a brief one - the Tories will want shot of Trident too, once they get a look at the nation's books), Scotland gets full fiscal autonomy with some sort of fudge on oil revenues. The whole deal could be cloaked as a general constitutional reform as a necessary response to the continuing scandals at Westminster.

It isn't elegant or idealistic, but it could work. The crack is there: keep hammering in the wedges.

CrazyDaisy said...


It will be interesting to see how this develops, however to correct the Times statement - 4 Astute are nuclear powered and do not require refuelling - they are not replacements for the V Boats, they replace the ageing S and T boats which are on the bones of their arse.

As we know from FOI, V T and S boats have discharged irradiated coolant system water in to the Clyde - hardly safe and what does Westmidden do - nothing - hence why Scotland is being treated like a stone in the sole of the Union's boot. Why do we stand for this - oh 8000 jobs in Faslane - my backside - less than 1000 will be effected, yet the Maritime wing of the SDF will need both east and west coast bases - so I doubt too many jobs will be lost.

Vanguard are both nuclear powered and carry the Nuclear Deterrent - if Scotland doesn't want them in her waters then they should use the correct political and lawful means at her disposal to prevent this, however, Liebore and the Fibdums canny agree on the colour of shite when it comes to supporting an anti-nuclear stance.

The SNP will need a working majority to ensure that Scottish wishes are respected and adhered to - both at Holyrood and Westmidden.

A thorny issue - how do we protect ourselves in future? The strongest always wipe out the weakest and no amount of UN or other talking shops will prevent this - it's in mans' nature to destroy, conquer and dominate.

We need to be sure we can look after our interests and protect them too. Whitehall will stop at nothing to ensure "little" Britain and the Union survive against the democratic wishes of Scots.

10 months of fascinating history in the Union sit afore us, I will try not to blink incase I miss anything!

Saor Alba

Crazy D

British Unionist said...

Clearly, 'empircism' ought to be spelt empiricism.

Patriot-indignation confounded my wits, obviously!

Vote Tory, vote for the common weal and unity of our people, not provincial bigotry.

Your British brother-countryman.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Methinks British Unionist is taking the piss.

Munguin said...

A quid pro quo? That’s a laugh. What does Scotland get? A few crumbs from the Union’s table, the great pleasure of hosting England’s nuclear deterrent? I’m not an anti-English small minded jock, but of course that is the clarion call of the English when attempting to refute the glaringly obvious. How dare the Scots demand the restitution of their own country?

Oh and British Unionist it’s Scotch mist, Scotch egg and Scotch whisky, the people of Scotland are the Scots. Conan I think you are right.

subrosa said...

Morning GV, yes that's what it amounts to doesn't it - throw the moaners a few sweeties...

subrosa said...

Morning Rab, I do hope you vote though. You're the only Scot I know who doesn't have a strong opinion about Trident!

British Unionist said...

Sir - Mr Librarian - you have misapprehended the design of my comments. Affected archaic epistolary style aside, I am completely sincere and unashamedly profess loyalty to our political union. One nation, one people, (please God!) for ever.

To Mr Bigot (Munguin is it?), I am sensible that it is not for us to abuse Madam's blog by appropriating it as a stage for private debate, but are you so ignorant of history Sir? So dead to the blood poured out across the world, Scot, English, Welsh, Irish, for the glory and advancement of this United Kingdom and her people? Lawful acts of Parliament from 1543, 1707 and 1800 fused us together, inseparably and for ever. Hasn't that been long enough, on this small island of ours, to create a new, perfect because united people?

Your British brother-countryman.

subrosa said...

Morning BU, I hope you're well.

I see your opinion is as strong as ever BU and I respect you for it. In return, I trust you will respect my opinion.

I note that you have no response to the fact that England play the NIMBY card concerning nuclear warheads.

subrosa said...

Morning Vronsky, I good assessment of the situation if I may say so.

subrosa said...

Morning CD, ah one of your favourite topics this is of course. :)

Thanks for the detail, I'm sure it may help Rab understand a bit more. It certainly has me.

Have a pleasant day young man. Overcast here, the type of day when you really wish it would rain and get it over with.

Nikostratos said...


Well you seem to be the one when any negotiations are needed with the English conservatives..

we can after (receiving all the assurances on your safety from the English conservatives) let you go and talk to them on Scotland's Behalf.

Later on we will cut you down from the tree branch they hanged you on.


subrosa said...

Really Conan, I'm surprised. ;)

subrosa said...

BU, feel free to debate here, that's the reason for this blog. Not only is debate healthy it also can be informative, so go ahead BU.

Munguin said...

British Onionist (BO for short): no, I’m just pointing out that you used the word Scotch incorrectly. You may get more cooperation from the Scots if you learned not to offend them with your ignorance. I don’t believe I mentioned history to you or indeed at all, so I don’t quite see how you can claim that I am dead to it. Also rather than just bang on about history perhaps it might be an idea to address some of the points raised in the blog.

Oldrightie said...

Despite my avid support for The Union, I would welcome Scottish Independence tomorrow to be rid of The Scottish Socialist Mafia from Parliament. One in particular!

Anonymous said...

I note that one of the arguements often used for the United Kingdom (as with British Unionist here) is that "we" conquered the world.

Now there are clearly those who consider this to be an achievement, but there are many who think that perhaps the world (including these islands) would be a better place had we spent a little more time and effort, not to mention money, making life here a wee bit better for the inhabitants, and a little less time, effort and money on subjecting other people to our way of life.

As for the subject matter SR, I completely agree that Mr Cameron starts to show his real colours. And whilst I dread the idea of a further Labour Government in London, for a group of less competent, more corrupt and stupid people it would be hard to set your hands on, I also dread a Cameron government, which, once installed, will resort to its natural instincts, and be plain nasty, especially to Scotland!

British Unionist said...

Dear Madam and disaffected Scots,

I would submit to you that the reason for the accomodation of the nuclear warheads in Scotland is of convenience, geography and good policy. Scotland is far more sparsely populated than England, and it contains many untenanted, gloomy and remote marshes most congrous for the establishment of a dangerous, highly secretive offensive arsenal. Further, Scotland is closer to our historic enemies the Soviets, for whose deterrence these weapons were bought and arrayed there. Nuclear power is the most economical, productive and safest fuel and our unharmed possession of it exhibits British genius and superiority.

Madam, I of course esteem your political opinions. However, the disunion favoured by some would leave us all poorer, weaker and more miserable. Some of my fellow Englishmen are fools, and I have no stomach for anti-Scottish malice or mockery, apart from good-natured reciprocal banter.

Oldrightie, you are a fine patriot and your blog's just vendetta against this Socialist leviathan is worthy of Addison and Steele.

I beg to remain, in this blessed United Kingdom,
Your British brother-countryman.

British Unionist said...

Needless to say,

'accommodation' and 'congruous' are the preferred spellings!

Divine punishment for missing church I imagine. Hmm?

Your British brother-countryman.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

BU-Sir-I would humbly put to you, that the accomodation of the aforesaid nuclear warheads, plus the vessels they reside within, should be within the territory of the people who actually want them?

Yours, in the hope of a Scottish Republic, Conan the Librarian™

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Oh dear! I forgot the "s around accomodation; devine retribution for being a smartarse;¬)

British Unionist said...

Sir - Tris - without meaning to offer insult, I suspect that you were educated post-1997, or am I in error?

Your opinion is fallacious. Notwithstanding clear, and to be frank often inevitable or provoked, injustices, no empire since Rome or (less imperialistically) that of America, has furthered civilised progress and notions of liberty and learning than these British Isles around the globe. Before the arrival of Cook and the Europeans, principally British but French, Italians and such too, the Australian Aboriginals had not a single permanent structure built. No system of writing, commerce, mechanical arts or political science. We taught them letters and laws, modelled (in the main) gentlemanly manners and true religion. How long do you suppose their life expectancy was before British medicines were dispensed and hygiene displayed? Thirty, thirty-five years perhaps? Now its double, unfortunately less than the white populace but it is mercifully rising.

The most dreadful and bloody effects of our foreign policy were dictated by benevolent Socialist folly, i.e. 11 million natives dying when Attlee ordained the partition of British India into Hindu and Moslem spheres.

We are not perfect, but we are an eminently good and noble people.

Your British brother-countryman.

Faux Cu said...

Dave "BOY" Caneron couldn't score in a Parliamentary bordello.

He has, sitting opposite him, the worst and most mendacious Prime Minister in the worst administration in living written history and Dave is treating PMQ as an Oxford Debating Society Wednesday afternoon.

Alec Salmond would tear him to shreds and expose him as the madman he is. Flying Nokias would be the least of it, all in the glare of live TV.

Nope sorry, Cameron is a dud too.

Faux Cu said...

living written history?

must be living or written but not both.

the heat and bubbly getting to me today, earlier than ususal.

subrosa said...

I knew what you meant FC. Reduce alcohol intake in the heat they say.

Anonymous said...

BU... Havers mate. Utter havers, and I wouldn't abuse Subrosa's hospitality by listing the rubbish that you're spouting. Of course Conan is right, as usual. You're taking the mick, and not making that much of a job of it. (How's your health Conan?)

FC. Excellent post. You're right. If Cameron can't make mincemeat of this pile of pants, then he isn't worth the job... and as he can't, he isn't.

(LOL. Faut boire un peu moins matey!)

McGonagall said...

Cameron vows to treat Scotland with respect - as long as we keep our mouths shut. Erse!

WV = lerse - is that no French?

Munguin said...

Thank you Tris for putting that better than I could. There is a charming four letter word and BU is clearly full of it.

Observer said...

Britain can't afford to renew Trident and the serving military don't want it. They would rather have proper equipment for the conventional Army.

Cameron could gain a good few votes from disenchanted Labour voters if he would just admit that, and the conventional Tory could be easily persuaded by the General's letter in the Times that Trident is useless.

Cameron really does seem to be a bit of a diddy. He is picking a massive fight with Scotland and what will he gain from it ?

Vronsky said...


I would welcome Scottish Independence tomorrow to be rid of The Scottish Socialist Mafia

Now who might they be? There hasn't been a socialist in Scotland since my maternal granny died. She used to go around Glasgow with a pail of distemper painting 'ILP' in the wally closes. Bet you don't understand any of that. The ILP was subsumed into the 'Labour' party, and that was the end of that revolution. If you love Tories, you must absolutely adore Labour, and you must have made your underpants all sticky when Tony and New Labour came along.

Bad news. If you get rid of Labour (and god willing, you will) next along could be a real socialist party. Enjoy!


Mum: What have you been doing, son?
Son: I've become a Labour MP. Do you like my house? I've another one, even bigger. Look at that stereo! Do you see my plasma TV? Why don't you try the jacuzzi! You should see my car, and my really slutty girlfriend! Aren't you happy I've been so successful?
Mum: It's all lovely son, really lovely. But what will you do if the socialists come back?

subrosa said...

Scunnert, is that no English fur the wurd lesson?

subrosa said...

Like you Observer, I'm confused by his attitude. Why now? Is he trying to cultivate his statesman qualities to the tory masses south of the border? Who knows.

subrosa said...

Jings Vronsky the ILP. A pal of my Dad's used to be connected with that and would blether on about it forever if he got the chance. That's in the days when socialists were exactly that.

subrosa said...

Don't forget to watch the programme all of you and if someone would be kind enough to put it on Youtube for scunnert, I'm sure he'd be eternally grateful and buy you a drink of your choice on his next visit.

I can't do it because iPlayer won't allow Macs access.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

tris, thanks for asking, I'm waiting on the docs judgement on this latest wee package o' pills.
Away and come to ma blog and post FFS, Subrosa with 40 comments make me feel quite inadequate:¬)

subrosa said...

I'll come and irritate you too Conan. I know you like that. ;)

Brian Hill said...

"Cameron Warns SNP". This guy isn't stupid so we must assume that this gibberish is for Middle England consumption only, oh and a few simple minded Scots Tories.

He knows he isn't warning the SNP but the SNP Scottish Government, an altogether different ball game.

He also knows that said Government is not in the market for being 'warned' by anyone.

He further knows that it's in his party's interest to see the Labour Party in Scotland decimated.

= talks tough but purrs like a kitten.

Andrew said...

Cameron says he will respect the Scottish Parliament's right to abolish prescription charges, but in turn we must respect his right to base nuclear weapons in Scotland. Hardly a fair analogy! But it was always thus from our colonial masters in London.....

subrosa said...

Behaving like Brown and his sidekicks isn't doing Cameron's cause much good then Brian.

subrosa said...

You've been watching the programme Andrew because I noticed that analogy too.

It was tame, very tame, but then it was Brian and BBC Scotland.

Munguin said...

What a disgrace to compare Scotland with Texas. That was only an independent republic from 1836-1845 and before that it was part of Mexico. Oh and they also forgot to mention that it did leave the USA in 1861 when it joined the Confederacy. How exactly does that compare with our ancient nation?

Munguin said...

Oh and they were only made to return to their so called Union by force of arms.

subrosa said...

The whole programme was propaganda and shallow Munguin. Complete unionist speak, nothing more.

Taylor didn't even bother to speak to anyone from the Norwegian government, although maybe he tried only to be told no after all the insults they've had from Westminster. I do hope that was the case.

Brian Hill said...

Brian Taylor's look at Independence versus the US Federal system was typically biased in its careful use of words and of course as couthy as possible to downgrade such a serious subject.

As a professional journalist Taylor knows Independence is now very much on the agenda and can no longer be ignored so he must now address it.

The trick now is to downplay successful Independent countries and play up those 'enjoying' a Federal type system without telling us the EXTRAS which States like Texas, for example, have but Scotland doesn't.

But whatever he does, Independence grows and marches on as an idea whose time has come.

subrosa said...

Very well said Brian. It's so true that the road to independence, although there are so many protestors, is on its way.

Alan W said...

Has independence ever been supported by a majority of Scots in living memory?

subrosa said...

I don't think so Alan, mainly because the unionists have been so good at making the Scots submissive and feart.

Related Posts with Thumbnails