English councils are spending £50m a year translating documents no-one reads. It is a well-intended initiative which is meant to offer immigrants a helping hand, yet now an investigation has found that many of the expensively-produced foreign language leaflets have never been read.
I've previously posted on how I found leaflets which stated they were available in 22 languages in my own local hospital.
Isn't it time we stopped this service here in Scotland? The cost of interpreters in courts are another matter we can debate another time. All I know is that the costs are prohibitive and such services are not available in other European countries so why are we supplying them? The answer I would receive from a labour MP is that we are a multicultural country and need to cater for all. Indeed we do but ensuring everyone speaks a common language is one of the fundamentals of ensuring everyone's needs are met.
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It's funny how private businesses etc seem to do okay without translation services.
But in the public sector, ensuring that everything is translated seems to be a 'must do'. I'm sure it's just a box ticking exercise though.
Jonny Effing Foreigner should learn the effing language or eff off.
Fine. And now, almost related. I thought that the election of a new Speaker of the House of Gammons had nothing to do with us - more Jonny Effing Foreigner doing the daft things he does - Black Rod, gaiters, jellied eels, cricket bats, witless flummery, God Save the Effing Queen, etc. Not so.
Look what Guido found.
I think there is a requirement to be able to provide translation services for someone who's first language isn't English if they are conducting an important transaction, such as applying for a house. But we offer translation services on demand - it's not automatic. There are mobile interpreters and translators it doesn't take that long to arrange, but you pay for precisely the services you use, there is no waste.
Like so many things that the public sector gets castigated for it's completely avoidable. But common sense isn't particularly popular in senior management who do have a tendency to have ''I am more right on than you'' competitions, while the rest of us try and get on with the work.
I don't think they know we only translate on demand and we've no intention of telling them.
Evening Obs
About time you popped over for a cup of sugar.
I think the bottom line is that if you live in a country you should be required to speak a or the language of that country.
That should be universal regardless of whether you work there or retire there. I don't see why the British taxpayer should be paying for a wide range of translation services for incomers. And No, I'm not racist. I'm probably the least racist person you will ever meet.
I also believe that Brits who buy a retirement place in Spain, for example, should learn to speak Spanish or Catalan or Basque, depending on the region. Why should Spanish doctors have to work in English with them when they fall ill.
I read not long ago about an English family who went to live in Wales (the father's job took them there). They kicked up hell because they didn't want their child to have to do Welsh classes, which were compulsory in school. I say tough. If you don't want to learn the language, go and live somewhere where they speak the same language as you.
(PS: I'm not that nasty; I'd make exceptions for very elderly people who would find the language impossible to learn.)
We deal a lot with asylum seekers Tris, who have been given leave to remain. Whilst they do make serious efforts to learn the language - that is part of the process - when they are making important decisions I think it is reasonable to give them access to translation services.
I also remember when First Bus and others asked foreign labour to come here we had stuff printed up in Polish - but ''we'' had invited them here and it didn't take them long to adjust. Also they pay their rent and are not anti-social so the initial investment was worth it from our point of view.
I don't think you can make hard and fast rules about this.
Evening Faux - I still have that bottle I've drained the wine long past but a wine called Arse - well no translation needed !
One of my friend's as a teenager was a girl from Prague. When she got here at fourteen she could speak Russian, Czech, Slovakian, and German. Within a year she was speaking English fluently and then went on to add French. God knows how many languages she now speaks.
The ability to learn language is innate in humans - if 'Johny Foreigner" hasn't learned the language of their host country they're just not trying.
I seem to recall that after the London "bombings" handwringers in the government wondering about community cohesion finally got the point about these free translations and maybe they were not such a good idea; integration and stuff.
Just to be devil's advocate - how many of the comments above echo the pitch of the BNP on this issue?
Why we don't teach languages at early primary school level is beyond me. I don't suppose we have very many multi-lingual primary teachers nor the desire to learn others as we still struggle to attain adequate basic standards of literacy in English.
While I'm at it, can politicians stop avoiding the politically incorrect words 'honesty' and 'editing' when instead they use the politically correct "transparency" and "redaction". Politicians are not all stupid - they just try to keep all of us stupid! Secret Inquiry anyone?
In fact we have, or probably used to have, a pool of multilingual Primary School teachers.
My former wife was a qualified Primary School teacher, who returned to University to study German and English. She already spoke French and German and had worked in Switzerland for a major chemical company in their internal language school.
After graduating she was obliged to go back to Jordanhill and take the 6 months course all new graduates have to take before they are "qualified" to teach physics or mathematics or English in secondary scholols despite the fact she had been teaching for 1 years and had studied for 4 years specifically to be a teacher not 6 months.
She did that but still needed a 6 months probationary period to be registered as a languages teacher.
She found it near impossible to get a placement because he seniority in the primary school sector carried over into the secondary one and she would need to be paid at the top of the secondary pay scale!
So it was easier to engage a new languages graduate with next to no teaching skills and experience than her.
She managed to get passed that hurdle but could get no posts in secondary schools teaching languages in Scotland. Bizarrely she could have walked into dozens of jobs in England.
She returned to the primary sector where she remained until plucked from her quiet obscurity help a languages experiment in the primary sector; teaching the teachers and also animating the use of languages.
That shut down a few months ago because of "budget restraints"
She told me, when we have the odd truce, that are a great number of primary school teachers who have language qualifications, albeit a Higher level, who would make good instructors in the primary sector.
The political will is not there.
Maybe it is because your average labour MP, Speaker, Holyrood Leader and Councillor has difficulty reading, writing and speaking English never mind a foreign tongue.
Their experience of abroad is the USA or some foreign place where the hospitality industry speaks Englaih.
How many Scottish MEPs speak a foreign language?
Sorry sticky 0 key
the fact she had been teaching for 1 years
should read 10 years
You make a good point Observer, and I stand corrected. I accept than most immigrants learn English, and if I'm honest, many of them, after a few months speak far better English than locals.
But I think we should be providing EFOL classes, and insisting that people attend them so that the need for translators is drastically reduced.
What the Spaniards do with Brit ex-pats who point blank refuse to learn any more than por favor and si, is beyond me.
Thank you all for contributing to a good debate. As you know, on my travels the past few days, I just couldn't master the art of using that wee bit on a laptop that you wiggle your fingers around upon and I decided, because I was supposedly relaxing, that I would wait until I was back to my 20" screen and mouse before responding.
I'll answer each comment in turn.
Rab abd Vronsky, I fall on your side of the fence. Don't think you'll be surprised. :)
Observer, I worked in Europe for years and I was only once provided with translation help and that was in a medical emergency. If a member of staff hadn't been to hand who had a good command of English then I would have had to pay for the translator.
To be honest I thought that was fair. Why should I pay for someone to buy a house here who doesn't speak English? Seems daft to me.
No other country I know of provides such free services.
In cases of emergency then I can understand the need for a translator, especially if many technicalities are involved but then again, should the non-English person not contribute something towards the cost?
Tris, I don't think your comment is racist in the least. Why do we always apologise for making comments about those who are incomers to our country? We're brainwashed into believing we're all racist if we do so.
Years ago in Switzerland it was compulsory for incomers to attend language classes and pass an exam before they were given any responsible powers. I can't find evidence if that's the same to day but I should think it is. Oh, although the classes were subsidised, the incomer still had to pay a nominal fee.
As you know Observer, I'm not up to date with asylum seakers but I do know classes have been running for them in Dundee too. From my source who works in the area, the only group who made any effort at the classes were a few of the eastern europeans who were students who had obviously had their studies curtailed in their own countries. The success rate is low because of the lack of interest from many.
The Poles are another issue. They have organised themselves with a definite porfessionalism and of course, they've had help from the Polish communities who have in 3rd and 4th generation Scots nowadays. If English classes are offered to Poles in the Perth area, they're always booked out within days. Speaking English is a vital part of their reason for living here and they take advantage of every avenue open to them.
Clarinda, I was taught French at primary school. I think it was a pilot in the Dundee area but it was stopped when I was in secondary. Possibly due to funding issues.
But I can still parrot speak most general French verbs in all of the tenses. Can't hold a conversation of course! Thankfully I've seldom needed my pathetic French but if I did go to France and needed an interpreter I would expect to pay for it. If I didn't have the money the cost should be put against my details.
After all, students are left with a debt to pay back to taxpayers, why not incomers?
Billy what your ex experienced will all be to do with 'funding' or that is the excuse.
It's been proven over and over again that teaching a very young child another language/languages works best of all. I taught mine basic German - we used to have German hours during the week when many hands and feet were used to compensate for the lack of nouns, but it was fun and still today they remember the very basic construction of German grammar plus a few everyday words.
Tris, the Brits in Spain who don't speak the national language have to pay for interpreters. The Spanish don't lay it on free in any situation.
Interesting post. Usual waste of public money for foreign invaders. Do you think Churchill would have laid on interpreters for Germans coming to land at Dover. I think not. There's a war on right now, but nobody bloody sees it. So upsetting what has happened to this once great land.
We can't dwell on Britain being an Empire anymore, thank goodness SL, but it's time we stopped spending money as if we were one of the big boys.
I just wonder how much we spend in Scotland SL. After all our health leaflets come out of the Scottish budget along with plenty others.
It is a bit bizarre if they provide English classes for asylum seekers in Dundee when they don't do that in Glasgow. Glasgow is where the overwhelming majority of asylum seekers in Scotland live.
Most of them don't need English classes in my experiemce.
What many people do not realise is that many if not most asylum seekers here speak English already - that's why they came to an English speaking country.
I cannot understand why any NHS publication would be provided in 22 languages. That makes no sense at all. I believe the main community languages in Scotland other than English are Urdu, Punjabi, Chinese, Polish, Slovakian and British Sign Language. To that we usually add Gaelic and sometimes Scots though that is just tokenistic as most Gaelic/Scots speakers are actually native English speakers. I cannot see any circumstances where it would be necessary to provide information in 22 different languages and I agree a total waste of money.
The English classes in Dundee also include immigrants Indy and they've been going for years (the classes I mean).
If I should have the misfortune to go to my local hospitals, other than to visit a friend, I'll pick up a leaflet and scan it in.
I've no experience of asylum seekers Indy so really I can't comment. The eastern Europeans who come for seasonal work seem to manage quite well with their English, at least most of them.
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