I have just heard on the news that another two soldiers have been killed in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. The total killed yesterday is now 4 and now 157 of our troops have been killed in this war. This is happening in the week John Reid is being honoured by Stirling University for his 'outstanding contribution to public affairs.' Don't forget John Reid, when defence minister, famously said that troops in Afghanistan wouldn't fire a shot. Liar.
Do spare a few seconds to think of the families of these brave men and the grief they must be suffering. Seldom do military families wish their voices heard as they prefer to grieve in private but let's not forget any military death in these circumstances is one too many. We should not be involved in Afghanistan and I will continue to press for the return of our soldiers.
Thank you for sparing your time to read this.
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21 comments:
Subrosa,
I also heard this however it is further topical as well as tragic.
1 of the Soliders killed was from the Gurkha Rifles.
Now going back to an earlier post
Kevin Jones, John Hutton you pair of snivelling shits. Do not f*** this regiment about and the rest of you new labour shits who voted with your utterlly useless ass of a leader. I dare you not to let the Gurkhas settle here
Another solider who dies under the British flag with a government who really do not give a shit
Ms Lumley you are a true hounourable woman.
In addition a Gurkha sergeant by the name of Krishna Dura was KIA on 15-12-8. It came apparent his family post his death was given a deprtation order from the Home Office, as once he was dead he was no longer serving therefore they no longer had any entitlement to stay in the UK.
Can anyone shed any light as to the current situation with this???
It is not often that I disagree with you Sub R but on this issue, in principal, I do.
I think that Afghanistan and attendant to that, Pakistan, will be the deciding conflict of my life.
I put it to you the Al Qaida (whatever the spelling)and their fellow travellers are amongst the most dangerous people to Western civilisation.
They have usurped an already unstable state and fashioned it into something out a pre-civilisation nightmare.
The attack on New York was actually only one of their outrages, others failed or were unrecognised as such; the Egyptian Airlines plane that disappeared en route was perhaps one of such training exercises.
I think these people, the core of them, are such that one cannot be negotiated with. They have only the objective of the destruction of Western Civilisation and the incorporation of all of us into their Caliphate.
After the Twin Towers, the USA has the support of the entire Western World and a lot of the Muslim World and National leaders. WE had the chance to wipe them out.
Bush Junior (aka The Imbecile) took it on himself to effectively abandon that "just war" to pursue financial self enrichment and Neocon geo-policies. Blair was his poodle and fellow conspirator. They wanted Iraq.
They took their collective eye off Afghanistan and gave Al Quaida the "Mother of All Recruiting Serjeants." This allow Al Q to define the infidel enemy in very fundamental and fundamentalist terms.
Having now turned their attention back to Afghanistan, too late, too late, they now have succeeded in creating the destabilisation of the entire NW Frontier. This is something that even the Russians or the Imperial British had not achieved in several hundred years of military campaigning.
We are now facing a meltdown scenario of Muslim fundamentalists, who hate Western Civilisation with a mediaeval obsession, getting control of a pivotal State in pursuit of their near endless intifada against the non Muslim World. Remember that India is sitting cheek by jowl with this mess and these nutters could garner nuclear weapons; maybe not thermo-nuclear but dirty nuclear ones with the capacity to deliver them.
It is a mess of frightening proportions and, like it or not, Afghanistan is one side of the coin.
We quit there and the war, not just the battle is lost.
The Americans, in more than some way, are as bad as the opposition. Their way of approaching this war is to lay waste to the enemy and everything around them and, then claim victory because they are all dead.
Rand Company Manual boxes all ticked.
Like Iraq they are making enemies faster than they are killing them. It is a modern day hydra.
So I cannot agree with you in supporting withdrawing troops but sadly, I cannot propose any simple solution the other way round.
It is a unwinnable war, in a strict military sense, something the Americans seem genetically programmed to not understand.
I can only guess at a general idea of where we need to go and how but, withdrawal is not one route.
Maybe removing the Americans from this equation would offer a start.Maybe returning the old Colonial Ways of bribing and favouring less unsavoury elements who would be happy to take up arms against the non Afghan muslim fighters. This could provide a respite for some real thinking on how we can remove this nest of vipers before it is too late but I fear that it is already too late.
They have spread from their seat of infection to other vulnerable countries.
The Hydra now has many displaced heads.
An epitaph to this Government's shamelessness is the death of all our soldiers in wars fought for the glory of Blair and Brown. Hypocritical and moronic servants of their own vanity. Bring them home before our shame ends in yet more deaths.
My heart really does bleed for these innocent young people, mercilessly thrown to the wolves by a governmental administration too heinous to contemplate. I think of them often, and never forget the sacrifice they are making. I too will continue to campaign for the end to our presence in Afghanistan,
Yes LotF, I heard that later. Ironic isn't it.
Our shame will be written in history OR and I do hope the names Blair and Brown are repeated endlessly. They are fully responsible for these deaths, not least because the equipment is so poor. It must be bad enough fighting a war you don't believe in without fighting badly equipped while your government spend £billions on nuclear warheads.
Thank you TP. I do hope David Cameron pulls them out of this hell. They're only there to help with the laying of oil pipelines.
I wonder what the kill ratio is - that is, how many Afghan civilians would these brave boys have killed if they had been able to continue in their noble duties? About 20 each per year? It is certainly much less than the average brave boy in the RAF can bag, but nevertheless quite respectable. So their lamentable departure saves 40 lives a year. Just imagine how many lives would be saved if all those brave British and American servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq were to be killed - perhaps another million? What a terrible tragedy that would be. I share your sadness.
Faux Cu, what a statement none of which I agree with, and would love to debate with you about.
The main point that sticks out is the west's accusation that Al-Qeeda attacked the USA because they are "FREE" - this is really, the biggest load of bollocks I've ever seen more than one country swallow at the same time. Seriously, because you are free, they are what? jealous? Oh please! There's so much more to it than just that.
Re the twin towers - I am shocked if you believe a bunch of arabs from the mountains managed to defy the US american defence system and plough planes into the towers. There is so much proof now that states otherwise.
And of course they can be negotiated with. I've taken the trouble to read up on what Osama bin Laden speeches were all about because I decided to see for myself and not take nutter Bush's word for it. I recommend you have a peek at his statements to the world (ignore the religous stuff, just focus on the concepts) - he is not fantatical and makes sense.
My eyes have been opened and I was dissapointed at the sheer arrogance of the USA on foreign policy and moreso that Blair blindly followed him like a puppy.
you are right that the war is unwinnable - but what on earth are they still doing there? They should get out now before they get slaughtered. Remember what they said? We love death as much as you love life - they should get the fuck out Now!!
The killing of more innocent people, inevitable casualties in any war, is the best recruiting sergeant, as Faux Cul said, for Al Qauedea and other group who regard the west and especially Britain as oppressors in a land where they have no right to be.
I share the immense sadness at the loss of more young lives and we can only hope that sanity returns to that unfortunate and pitiful country.
I cannot feel anything but anger at the politicians who trot out platitudes on occasions such as this.
Vronsky I note that you have little regard for the military in their present capacity and I respect that. Their duties in this war are certainly not noble and they are fully aware of that I am sure. That's what makes it all the more difficult for the troops - they're doing a job they don't believe in.
Perhaps you may think 'well if they don't like it leave 'and I would understand that. But if you were a highly qualified person who had decided to join HM forces some years ago, before we had PMs who used them to increase their world status, would you leave until you were rewarded in a decent manner? So many in the more senior ranks(and below) are between the devil and the deep on this issue because they've worked for years thinking they were protecting the people of this island.
Sadly civilians are killed and believe me I regret that as much as the next person, but it happens in all wars. Take Iraq, estimates vary from 100,000 to 500,000 civilians killed and that's because Mr Bush and Mr Blair put their personal interests far in front of peaceful world opinion.
Am I on the right track with this response? Obviously you have no connections with HM forces within your circle of friends, acquaintances or perhaps you would see a different aspect the absolute sacrifice these soldiers make in our name, and without the ability to protest other than to resign, which sadly is so corrupted.
So many within our military are genuinely committed to helping protect us, the people of the UK. They are as distressed, if not more so, than you when they hear their actions have involved civilians. Some suffer all their lives from the experience.
You may well say, which I would in your position, why join the services if you feel that way. The reason is because many feel they're doing their duty in protecting the people of this island, same as the fire brigade and the police.
Oh Vronsky where do we go from here?
Rosa.
Our boys are at the shit end of the stick in a conflict which I fear is unwinnable in the long run.
They are being sold short on so many things by a government which quite frankly does not give two hoots about their welfare.
May the Blessing of the Most High rest with them and their families at this sad time.
This should have been the biggest story of the day, but no Pravda and Sky are just going on about the Expenses. As part of an extended family that has already lost one member in Afghanistan and just had one come back from 6 months there I am appalled at what is now becoming a "forgotten" war.
We either pursue this properly, with a proper plan of action or get out as quickly as possible.
That's a calmer answer than I expected (or maybe deserved), sr, but I always get a bit stirred up at appeals for sympathy for our military casualties when the suffering is so asymmetrical. Professional soldiers knew the chance they took when they signed up - Afghan and Iraqi civilians made no such bargain. They are innocent, unwilling and unpaid, and in the end just as dead - but in numbers several orders of magnitude higher than US/UK casualties.
Where do we go from here? Well, not Iran, I hope. Nor Pakistan, where the Yanks, ably assisted by the UK as usual, are stirring up the diplomatic equivalent of Swine Flu - a totally imaginary threat.
Morning BDollop, yes it is very sad. It's true what the say isn't it 'The Horrors of War'.
Faux Cu, I'm still pondering a response for you, remind me won't you.
Then you know the number of people who are affected when there is serious injury or death fitaloon. It's had enough having family involved in these wars I should think.
They should be brought back. Like Iraq they're in Afghanistan on a lie. Don't forget John Reid and his "no shot will be fired" speech. Liar he is.
Now Vronsky I see you're back to the oldest chestnut about our military "soldiers knew the chance they took when they signed up." If a soldier signed up before 1997 when labour took over, they wouldn't possibly have imagined they would be spending at least 6 of their 12 years service fighting wars for mad politicians. If a poll was done with those who signed before 1997 today you may well find that at least 50% regret it, not because it's exceptionally hard work, but as I said, it made even harder when you have no belief in what you're ordered to do.
Dare I suggest a soldier may be seriously affected all his life if he discovered he's killed civilians. Soldiers are not killing machines as some people class them, they do have feelings.
I'm off to read what Craig's saying, thanks for the link. He's someone with so much inside knowledge of certain places. I say that to encourage others to read your link Vronsky.
Brownlie morning. It's not just the platitudes it's the attitudes of politicians.
I opposed sending troops to Afghanistan. At the time the SNP supported that but I was dead against it.
The reason was because for a long time I have been a supported of RAWA – the Revolutionary Association of Women of Afghanistan and they were against it. Their name sounds a bit Trotskyist I know but these women are revolutionaries because they do things like teaching girls to read. They said the military intervention would make things worse and it has made things worse. The NATO occupation has simply replaced the Russian occupation with much the same consequences.
The US/UK could start to solve the problem of fundamentalist terrorism by pulling out of Afghanistan and the Middle East completely. Sadly, it doesn’t matter how good the intentions of individual soldiers may be - they do no good being there, all they do is foster the sense of oppression and rage that drives fundamentalism. That is so blindingly obvious.
It is politicians who are responsible for the deployment of troops, not the troops themselves. When politicians ignore the blindingly obvious and pursue a course which appears completely counter-productive you have to wonder why. If the objective of American foreign policy (by extension UK foreign policy) is truly to defeat terrorism, introduce freedom and democracy to the Middle East and make the world a safer place they are doing the exact opposite of what they should be doing to achieve that.
Which begs the question of what their objective actually is. Being a cynic I tend to think it is the same objective that all world powers have - control of resources. Everything else is the cover story.
I've read quite a bit about RAWA Indy although I didn't know anything about them until our troops went into Afghanistan. I too was against our troops going there, not least the history of the area.
Can't find anything else in your post to answer because I agree with it all.
It was late last year I read in one of the broadsheets than UK troops had completed an essential part of their duty by ensuring an oil pipeline was delivered safely to an area of Afghanistan. It was a horrendous journey for hundreds of miles for them. Do wish I could trace the article but it emphasised to me that it was about resources and oil in particular.
If you read German newspapers they explain clearly why they refuse to allow their troops to go to the front line but of course our politicians will do anything to look good in America's eyes.
It's my hope that now this expenses fraud has been made public, we may attract a more honest politician and one who does his/her electorate's bidding.
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