There is a story in today's Dundee Courier which dismayed me. I've always thought troops based in Scotland and returning from theatres of war, would be flown to the likes of Brize Norton from where the RAF would then fly them to Leuchars and army transport would take them to their bases.
It appears this isn't so and on Monday Arbroath's Commando Group arrived at Edinburgh Airport after their grueling tour of duty in Afghanistan. A Tory MSP Alex Johnstone and two Arbroath councillors hit out at the way the servicemen were kept separated from their families at the airport. Yesterday Mr Johnstone lodged a motion in the Scottish Parliament expressing "disgust" that no formal welcome awaited the men and that they had not been allowed to enter the terminal where loved ones were waiting for them.
Major Si Giles, officer commanding rear party 45 Commando explained Monday's problem and said it was standards practice for military units arriving at Edinburgh Airport to disembark away from the terminal and then move to the cargo area, where weapons can be checked and processed - civilians are not allowed to do so.
Aside from the problems 45 Commando had at the airport on Monday, I strongly believe we should have a formal welcome party when any of our troops return home from theatres of war. This Commando Group lost 10 men and 20 were wounded during their tour of duty and it is time Scotland paid them the respect they deserve.
Yes I know military matters are not a devolved issue, but do we have to copy the attitude of Westminster which shows such disregard for UK troops? No. It would be common courtesy for an MSP or a member of the Scottish cabinet to take the 20 minute drive to Edinburgh airport and be there to represent the Scottish people who realise, without our troops, they would all feel much less secure. I do hope the Scottish Parliament takes my advice and arranges for a representative to be present at Edinburgh airport in future to meet these brave people and convey to them our sincere thanks. I'm sure such a gesture would be greatly appreciated by the servicemen and women, their families and the country in general.
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29 comments:
Totally agree!
Wow that's great Rab. Now there's two of us do you think Alex Salmond will take action?
Military matters may not be devolved, but respect and honour certainly are.
An interesting thread on politicalbetting about the independence referendum:
http://tiny.cc/9zGwD
Yes indeed scunnert and it's something that could be done immediately and should be done.
I understand perfectly well why the decommissioning of weapons etc. can't take place with civvies milling around but agree that all our troops should be formally recieved by top level politicos.
Our local lads paraded through town last weekend to a raptuous reception with not a muzzie objector in sight.
Full page spread in the local paper too.
Oh dear,
Subrosa my dear you know how to push all my buttons first thing dont you???
Anyway deep breath and lets begin.
It was not too long ago that military flights were mainly through either Brize Norton or Lyneham.
Certain units did travel from their own bases but those were mainly particular ones with particular skills.
I travelled through the main 2 bases during my service and after the first gulf war in 91 was also upon my return to the UK infront of my parents and my said female companion at the time in view of them subject to a customs search and customs declaration. Yes trust me it did happen.
Uk troops rarely and i mean rarely travel on planes armed on person. Personal weapons are normally deployed and stowed in the field armoury upon arrival and departure.
Therefore weapons being at Edi airport would not be an issue.
The Major comments I find a little confusing.
Bringing a unit to a civvy airport to me is a easy to understand move due to location. Moving scottish units to Brize or Lyneham is costly but is cost really the issue?????
No, the fact that we are involved in a dirty war with very little support for some quarters, the fact we dont want to upset the minority, the government want it swept under the carpet, protests if that what you want to call it in Luton all add to the fact that this is one major pain in the arse for the shower in power.
Will Alex Salmond say something, No, dont think so, as you said its a UK issue not a Scotland issue.
Some very good points here. I think it is down to the Scottish Parliament and Edinburgh Council to allow the opportunity for a modest welcome home ceremony.
Alex Salmond has supported the Save the Scottish Regiments campaign and kindly hosted a reception at Edinburgh Castle last year.
There are some administrative points...
1. RAF air transport fleet is completely overwhemlmed (let alone overstretched). Not sure if these flights are Tristars or civilan charters. Tristars have defensive aid suites for use "in theatre". It could be a direct flight to Edinburgh from out East. There is no capacity within the RAF air transport fleet to shuttle personnel within the UK ie. to Leuchars, so if the troops were dropped at Brize and shuttled up, it would be a civilian flight. My guess is it was a direct flight, as MoD would rather use coaches than pay for a charter flight in the UK!
2. Offloading and guarding personal weapons and kit etc is a necessary task, but it isn't insurmountable. They could be secured somewhere and guarded by a volunteer while the rest of the troops meet with their loved ones. Reservists from HMS Scotia or from a local TA or RAuxAF unit could even volunteer.
3. Main concern after a deployment is normally to get home - it is entirely understandable that the Marines took the initiative and unloaded the kit themselves. Likewise, any welcome home ceremony should be modest and brief.
It would be a wonderful gesture to have such a welcome home ceremony for returning units based in Scotland, and this is a good idea.
Subrosa,
Many good posts, the fact is that 45 decompressed in Cyprus - let off steam had few beers got naked - so it may have been a C2 or a charter home.
I came back from a short stint in the "Stan" in Jan this year and was diverted from Brize to Brum. We landed and with hand baggage left through the customs point and walked the 1.5 miles around the perimeter to the main terminal in full desert uniform, no guns = no hassle, while our other halves were 1 hr away waiting at Brize! Some were coached back, I called my wife to divert north!
The point I'd like to make is that we just want to get out, away and home - period. I am an SNP supporter and yes it would be nice to have a dignitary to meet and greet but recognition could be given later, the majority of the lads/lassies had just done 6 months hand to hand and wanted to see friends, family and feel comfortable in their own home.
Whatever individuals' take on the war, the MoD and HM Government have bitten off more than they can chew or swallow! Al Q a threat - definitely - but the Muslim Community's failure to take action to de-radicalise and engage fully in UK life be it England or Scotland has been poor.
Furthermore, typical of a Westminster Gov prancing around playing politics with peoples lives in a Sovereign Foreign Nation - egos writing cheques their Armed Forces cannot cash springs to mind! So it is no wonder that Whitehall mandarins think they can pervert the case for Scotland's Independence.
At times I could rage with anger, but that is not the answer! I work for the UK AF only because there isn't a Scottish DF yet and my politics do not negate my responsibilities as a father and having to put food on the table, sometimes we have to bend over and take a good "pineappling"!!!
Thank you gentlemen for your contribution. You can obviously see I'm out of the loop these days as to bulk troop movements as in my time they were done through Brize Norton or Lyneham.
Sorry to upset you first thing in the morning LOTF, that wasn't my intention.
The major's comments confused me too but I expect each soldier has to claim their own weapons before leaving for another mode of transport. You'll correct me if I'm wrong please.
The comments from the three of you has brought me to the decision that I'll send them onto Alex Salmond (that is if you all approve). It may give him some food for action however minimal and informal.
Ah Jess, you're my source of RAF info :) I wasn't suggesting a red carpet or necessarily a handshaking ceremony, but as you say, a modest welcome home situation. You're right, the SNP gave enormous support to the SSR campaign and I'm surprised they haven't thought of some form of acknowledgement themselves.
Interesting you think they would be direct flights and your comments that the RAF don't have enough hardware to move troops internally. Of course I'm aware hardware has been reduced over the years but not to this degree. Shameful especially in the past years with these conflicts around the world.
Of course the aim of the men is just to get home, breath out and let go. Being on duty 24/7 for months on end is uncomprehensible to most people. When I read the current noises from MPs about how hard they work I seethe with anger.
Of course the men would just get on and unload the kit, I don't think that was a problem but don't forget, civvies were involved here and it's civvies who are complaining.
If any of you could come up with an outline of how a brief welcome home ceremony would pan out I'd be very grateful and I will forward it to Alex Salmond. We may, just may, get some action.
Afternoon CD, I'm kind of late today, work interfered with my blogging.
Now the fact they came from Cyprus doesn't surprise me as many from Iraq used Cyprus too. Thanks.
Your situation does happen CD, it happened once of twice to me 30+ years ago but I can't fault the RAF because in my day they were exceptional considering I was a NAAFI official. Maybe they were amused to see a woman doing was had always been a man's job :)
I understand your anger about the MOD and Westminster. Part of the problem these days is that very few politicians have ever experienced even a brief life in the forces therefore they have no motivation or knowledge to improve things. In Europe it's a different matter as all young people have to spend up to a year doing military or social service and through that mandatory service they learn about military life if they choose that path.
What kind of small acknowledgement could the Scottish government make at the airport. I'm not thinking of a big ceremony, just one person there to show the men that we care. It's not my intention to request a full scale ceremony with bagpipes. As you say the men couldn't care less about such events but I would like to show I and millions of others I hope, care enough for someone to honour their arrival home and of course their tragic losses.
New army 'toytown' vehicle. Is this a joke?
http://tiny.cc/3haOC
Sounds like a civilian charter from Akrotiri after a short period of recuperation ...presumably with the assistance of Keo beer! There was something in the MSM (perhaps Private Eye) picked up by ARRSE or PPrune on the use of Tristars and their DAS and unservicabilities so it's better to get on board something that is reliable!
The Band of the Royal Marines has a unit at Rosyth (HMS Caledonia) and there are plenty of other units in the Edinburgh area (pipe and drums training is at Redford) that could put on a welcome, also civilian pipe bands. Roll out the red carpet to the jet, set aside a small area for reunions (perhaps inside, perhaps a marquee), priority free parking with shuttle bus for families collecting their loved uns, some VIPs and brass to greet the flight, soft drinks and nibbles for the guests...could be quite nice...if the troops want it.
I remember the flag waving that greets returning warships...same sort of thing. It might be good for primary schools to send a busload along, to show appreciation and rebuild lost connections between youngsters and the Armed Forces.
Just realised I suggested a modest ceremony and got carried away...they deserve it!
It couldn't be done Subrosa.
In order for any member of the Scottish Government to be present to meet troops returning from a tour of duty they would need to a) know where and when they were returning in sufficient time for their attendance to be diaried and b) be given permission to attend.
There is no way that the MoD would agree to either a) or b). Whitehall completely distrusts the SNP. So unfortunately it will not happen.
the problem with all the suggestions so far is no one recognies the 'FACT'
the snp as a party in general and the First minster in particular are pacifists.
Who wish to reduce to the lowest level of need any armed forces with the firm conviction of eliminating them completely.
And who are also against glorifying the use of war and those who take part no matter how patriotic they may be.
Indy, I know your knowledge of the SP is possibly far more than mine, but this business about 'it couldn't be done' is nonsense in this regard. Surely Andrew Welsh is privvy to the movements of 45 Commando and any other Group stationed at that base? If enough of the Scottish public asked for a government representative then the MOD would have to given permission. The diary is a poor excuse. Anyway I know that troops movements are planned weeks if not months in advance.
But all is not lost. If government can't/won't do anything, then civilians connected with the services can do something. We don't need politicians necessarily in this kind of situation. As Jess says there are plenty pipe bands who would be willing to put on a wee performance, including the wonderful pipe and drums of Queen Victoria School Dunblane. They would take their share, after all they played for generations at every rugby international at Murrayfield. All this needs is the determination of the public behind it and it could be done.
Forget the nibbles and just give them a wee sip of bubbly and send them happily on their way. I may have a wee word with SSAFA as to how to progress with this. The British Legion may also be interested but of course it bows to Westminster.
Yes the more I think about it the more I think it would be an excellent show of public respect with or without politicians.
Actually Indy I think it's shameful the SP hasn't protested about not being 'allowed' to show respect to troops who are based on Scottish soil. Why haven't they? Don't our men and women matter? This is the kind of 'argument' with Westminster which would receive a great deal of public support.
Can you tell I'm fizzing?
Niko, the SNP may be against particular wars but they're not pacifists. They realise, like all of us, that we need some form of protection and that is usually military.
I'm not talking about glorifying war niko. I'm talking about paying a little respect to those who keep us safe.
How would you feel if we didn't have HM Forces? I for one, would possibly move to another country which did have them and they were given the respect they deserve.
The police in this country gain every accolade going and political support from every party. Our forces are ignored, poorly paid, in comparison with politicians at least and quietly go about their business without complaint.
You hit the nail right on the head my dear.
All they want is respect.
As I said earlier certain minorities who are arse kisses to the hilt by our government get there way and our forces are hidden away like a red headed step child at a family reunion. No situation now they have themselves in a corner and the least said about the better.
To be able to walk tall and say they did what was asked.
No band, no champagne, just good old fashioned respect for doing a shitty job for shitty pay.
I came back from afghanistan last year. Yes I have stated in previous posts I am a "civvy contractor" again say what you like people. I did my uniform role in the 91 war.
However I got what I always wanted when I returned back end of last year, my gorgeous wife and my beautiful kids to run a t me at Glagow airport, knock me on my fat backside and kiss me and tell me they loved me and that word could not express their elation at my return.
But I walked into the airport a civvy in civvy clothes.
things might be different in uniform.
Subrosa I am not suggesting that you don't write to Alex Salmond requesting this - I think you should. I am just forewarning you that you are likely to receive an official response from the MoD which basically says defence is reserved, sod off. You must remember that officially the Scottish Government is simply an arm of the UK Government. Whitehall does not recognise that the Scottish Government is a government in any sense of the word.
It's a bit like the Cenotaph scenario, where people complain about the SNP not being represented at the annual ceremony. They are not represented because they are not invited. The Plaid Cymru/SNP Group in Westminster gets an invitation but only one between them so they have to take it turn about each year. The Scottish Government is not invited to send a representative.
That is the way it is. You might be better off going for a citizen-led initiative in any case because if the SNP got involved it would just be portrayed as Alex Salmond 'picking a fight' with Westminster and exploiting troops for that purpose. That is the arena he has to operate in unfortunately.
Wouldn't you have liked a wee pipe band outside just to see you on your way to the car with your lovely family LOTF? Make you feel you were back where you belonged?
Thanks for explaining the SG's situation on this Indy. Firstly I'm going to do a bit of enquiring with ARSSE and see if the troops would like a bit of bagpipe music.
I've had many runs ins with the MOD over the years and they don't frighten me in the least. Unfortunately in the past I had to curtail my views to them but now I've nothing at all to lose so I shall go ahead and tell them their attitudes in certain areas are despicable. Into my correspondence I shall bring the question of the SNP group not being represented every year at the Cenotaph although truthfully that doesn't particularly bother me too much. I know they spread themselves throughout Scotland on Remembrance Day and Scotland is what matters to me, not some London ceremony.
I appreciate you spelling it out though Indy but it's time really we started looking after our own rather than being dictated to by London. My granny used to say (some 50 years ago) rules can be bent but never broken.
I think everyone's missing the most salient point here - it's the Holyrood Easter hols this week anyway!
I mean, be reasonable!!
Subrosa, tell me that ARSSE acronym isn't for real?!
Stuart it is for real. Google it!
Ah, I see, I thought it was something official, but since it isn't then that's OK then!!
It's actually ARRSE rather than ARSSE, not that it makes much difference, but you don't want to make an arsse of yourself.
BTW, Subrosa, re what you said about the blogroll, I was checking mine tonight to see what it was doing and I don't think it registered your smoking post at all and was stuck on your Irish medicine post for hours after you'd updated your blog and seemed to only update with your panda post.
Don't know exactly why this might be - and other sites seem to register almost immediately a new post is made - but it always seems to get there eventually!!
Stuart, I was about to correct myself but I thank you for doing it for me :)
I have a problem with a few of my blog list not updating. One of my favourites Oldrightie never seems to do so but now I know I just visit every day.
Doesn't seem to matter if we reload the RSS of whatever. Maybe someone technical can explain.
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