Courtesy of the Times
It's not often I'm angry because I consider it self destructive, but having read about the 'protests' which took place in Luton yesterday when the Royal Anglian Regiment paraded through the town, I'm not just angry I'm furious. These homecoming parades are another American import that the public and the military don't particularly want, but we have a government who loves anything American, so they're here for the moment. Americans have a much greater respect for their military and the job they do to protect their country. That is missing in the UK and the military don't want this public display, they only want to be home with their nearest and dearest and to have a full night's sleep for the first time for many months.
These parades are not the reason for this post but they are the catalyst, because without them the public may not see the Islamic face of hatred. The obviously well organised protest which these Islamic extremists undertook yesterday shows how far the Westminster government will bow to appease the muslim community in this country and they'll bow further no doubt, hence my anger.
The police didn't arrest any of the protesters who abused our troops; the only service in the UK who can't speak up for themselves. The police, fire service and our other protection agencies have unions to speak on their behalf - our military have nobody, unless some brave retired soldier speaks out. What I heard on the media last night from the police was something like 'if there have been any laws broken then we will look into it and make arrests if need be.' If need be? The Home Office know the instigators of this protest and the police decided (don't ask me why because I may tell you), not to take any action against them.
The Times has details of this particular group who protested in Luton but the article also names names and suggests that further similar protests are being organised.
How much longer is this government going to allow this behaviour from these fanatics who will not be content until the whole of the UK is under muslim control and law? I know there are many muslims in Scotland and England who are ashamed at the behaviour of some of their own religion but they never speak out much do they? We seldom hear a muslim community condemn this type of action although occasionally a muslim community leader will pop up and say they don't 'approve' but that's not enough for me.
Britain is the country which is famous for allowing freedom of speech and I agree with this in principle but when does freedom of speech become treason? Britain is also a country based upon Christian values. Geert Wilders wasn't permitted into the country to give a speech recently (although he'd been here some months before for that very reason) but Islamic extremists are allowed to insult and intimidate our military with the only response from Westminster being, at PMQs today, 'we all support our forces.'
We don't ALL support our forces Mr Brown, surely you can see that there is a contingent of people who hate us and our forces but yesterday were using our troops to express their feelings about you and your decisions. Wakey wakey.
So I ask, is it our glory that we didn't disband these protesters once it was seen (although it was previously known) they would threaten our troops in this way or is it our shame that we're allowing our country to be taken over by people with a very anti-British and perhaps anti-western agenda.
If anyone thinks I'm racist writing this post then tough. My culture and it is the Scottish culture, is important to me and I'll do everything I can to protect it, along with giving respect to our forces. If these people threaten that then I would expect the Scottish government and the Scottish people to come down hard on them, very hard.
Posts
45 comments:
Why racist there are muslim soldiers in the army...should they have to put up with this treatment from other muslims.
A good point niko, a very good point. The muslims in the army can't speak out about this because they have no voice in the UK. Everyone else has been given a voice.
If the muslims in the army could speak out then it could be of great benefit to the UK insofar as they could make the government see sense.
What ever happened to England? What a mess they have on their hands. I think it's too late for them - English culture is in decline and will never rise again.
What worries me scunnerr is that this spreads to Scotland. We give rather a bit too much to these other cultures in my opinion. Have a google at the amount of money that goes to 'promoting' any culture in Scotland but the indigenous. It's shocking.
Subrosa,
We're not fighting for this country abroad, we're fighting for each other and the honour of The Regiment, The Corp, The Air Force or The Royal Naval Service depending on where our loyalties lie.
We should not be in Afghanistan, it's not our War and the only answer I've had in MoD is that we've bitten off rather more than we can chew old boy! The same in Iraq, stamping around like Imperialist Stormtroopers, I went there to give something back, I was so disgraced by Tony Blair and his fucking lies. British Foreign Policy, this is not what I joined for, a series of illegal wars, with Sudan or Zimbabwe next. Iran is a step too far, believe me.
Muslims have a right to free speech as much as you or I do. If it wasn't for centuries of "Britannia Rules the World" then we'd probably be alright. The UK didn't learn in the 1920s when in Iraq the first time and British Foreign policy shaped what is now modern Afghanistan.
I want an Independent Scotland as much as you, with our own culture celebrated and those of other cultures that are absorbed into ours, which is already the case, we're so welcoming as a nation.
I want to be shaping Scotland's defence Service in the interests of Scotland not misguided gungho Brit/Westminster Foreign Policy, oh we've fucked up dear fellow MPs, I know let's send in the Armed Forces - they can die on my behalf and for what? British egos.
Moran Taing
CD
I agree with you completely Subrosa. Multiculturalism destroys indigenous cultures while promoting exotic imports, and if you dare to protest you are branded racist.
All the cool people - the cosmopolites - the ultraliberals think it's just marvelous and start spouting phrases from 1984 like: 'UNITY THROUGH DIVERSITY". Oh aye - Christmas becomes a "winter festival" and a Christmas tree becomes a "festive tree" because we don't want to offend. But Eid remains Eid.
Then there's the King Fahd Mosque and Islamic Centre of Edinburgh. Built with Saudi (Wahabi) money and no one bothering to point out that there is no quid pro quo as churches are outlawed in Saudi Arabia.
I'm very much afraid the West has been run by a bunch of effeminate arseholes with no balls.
Again - apologies for the vulgarity.
These Islands are one land mass and a small one at that. Whilst we squabble between ourselves, the rest of the world colonises us.
I'm with Crazy Daisy on this, lets see to our own back yard and to hell with the Middle East to many Scots have died there over the centuries let then kill the shit out of each other.
Rosie you make a good point, these parades serve no other purpose than to salve the consceince of the duplicious political bastards who sent them away on a false document to boost Blairs image and ego, he is a dirty low life war criminal as bad as the ones they seek to exterminate.
Much better that they stand on the tarmac on live telly and greet the coffins of our dead with due respect acknowledging there sacrifice and showing proper respect. They could also stop penny pinching and asking them to fight with Micky Mouse equipment.
Thank you for your post Daisy. Whilst I don't quite agree with your 'fighting for each other' I understand your viewpoint. My view is that someone joins up to protect the UK and not to fight for each other, although the job entails protecting each other to the nth degree.
Of course we shouldn't be in Afghanistan and we shouldn't have been in Iraq.
And of course muslims as well as any other religious group have the freedom of speech in this country but that doesn't mean it should insult our forces. They should have been told to take their protest to Downing Street and been driven off the streets of Luton.
I too hope that once we're independent we shall use our forces for the reason for being: the protection of Scotland.
Scunnert how can I let you apologise for language when I feel the same.
I'm scared and also angry that the UK have come down to giving preference to religious extemists rather than support the indigenous population but nobody will protest too much because, as we saw yesterday, the only 2 protesters arrested weren't part of the muslim protesters.
Says it all.
Oldrightie, auch yer a awfy man. There are many countries with a population similar to Scotland who are doing just fine.
Perhaps you think England would be worse off without Scotland?
You'd be right.
KW you must know how I feel about the lack of respect given by the labour government to the body bags brought back to the UK. It's a complete disgrace and then, to compound the insult, Gordon Brown 'pays homage' at PMQs to the dead. How bluddy dare he. What an utter insult to those that went, on his instruction, to fight in a war which is futile. Sadly our troops have no voice to say ENOUGH but somehow there must be one. I don't know how and I'm looking at how other countries support their troops so perhaps I'll find some sort of solution and then pester PMs. Of course they're not interested or they would have done something long before this. If you look at the list of Scottish MPs who supported the war in Iraq that would prove my point.
I was angry at the protests in Luton the other day and i make no apology for using the word angry.
If people have something to say on what our soldiers are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan then yes by all account protest but not at our soldiers on home soil at a homecoming parade.
My older brother is in the army and recently moved back to Edinburgh with his family.
He has been out to Iraq twice and he still refuses to say wither he agrees with British involvement in the country.
Someone commented our soldiers don't have a voice or a union to speak up for them, are you for real mate ?
The last thing our soldiers need is a union back home discussing the molarity of what they are doing in Iraq when Soldiers are putting their lives at risk to carry out the orders in which they have been given.
The soldiers need to carry out any operations with a clear and sound conscience and be in the mindset what they are doing is right.
I have read all the tags on this blog site on the issue of those who came out to protest and frankly speaking im socked, angry and disgusted at some of your comments.
I to was angry at the protesters but to somehow connect them to the eroding of our own culture is stupid and verging on being xenophobic.
Someone wrote we spend to much on other cultures than our own. Wrong mate we spend millions of pounds a year promoting Scotland and her culture.
4 million people don't come to Scotland each year to see polish and Muslim communities, they come to Scotland to learn and see what makes Scotland.
Some of the attitudes amongst you have me questioning wither you want a multicultural society or one that is bland and 100% caucasian.
I'm as Scottish as anyone else on this blog site and i don't think for one minute my culture is being eroded -'Far from it' and i thank the multiculturisim of Scotland as do the SNP for delivering Scotland's first SNP government.
Remember this - had it not been for the election of Scotlands first Muslim MSP we might not have seen the SNP in government.
My own personal opinion is many people from ethnic minority backgrounds in Scotland do embrace Scottish culture and sometimes try to hard, even the ones that were born here because they have never been fully accepted to being one of us.
BOP - Horseshit.
Bop
"soldiers discussing the molarity"
whatever next..
Shut it Niko, you know it was a typo.
This is the longest and most heartfelt post I've ever seen by BoP, and by virtue of having a relative out there repeatedly, he is well entitled to it.
Soldiers have always paraded, and always will.
I did have a bit of a giggle to myself at the thought of the RSM calling the parade to a halt, about turn,
present arms...in front of the protestors.
I'd like to see if they had the courage of their convictions then.
'Someone commented our soldiers don't have a voice or a union to speak up for them, are you for real mate ?'
BoP that was me who said that and I'm for real. They don't have a spokesperson and that's all there is to it.
Thanks for your post though, very well thought out and glad to know your relative is safe and sound.
This post was about protests in Luton BoP not protests in Scotland, but it does happen that there will have been Scottish soldiers in this parade I'm sure. These parades are unnecessary and the military don't want them. It was Tony Blair or Gordon Brown who insisted upon them. Daft idea. The previous parades were just after the 2nd world war then they were stopped.
Anyway BoP I'm glad you think there's no threat to Scotland but personally I'm not so sure. Call me a cynic if you like.
Conan there haven't always been public parades like this, it's just the latest 'Britishness' rubbish from Westminster.
In some ways perhaps they've flushed out the extremists but I would think the police etc know who they were previously.
The image you portray made me smile too :)
Subrosa I take issue with you on two matters.
Firstly on the issue of providing services for ‘these other cultures’ before indigenous people. I don't agree with your position on that. For example there are 86 languages spoken in Glasgow (when we talk about 'multicultural' Scotland we are really talking about Glasgow) but rather than support that properly the council spends millions of pounds on Gaelic education, despite the fact that hardly anybody speaks Gaelic any more. Ridiculous tokenism. Glasgow wants to be a modern city, and in many ways it is, but the council needs to provide the services which support that, not services which support the way the city used to be a hundred years ago.
I can imagine the howls of outrage now. How dare we suggest spending less on ‘our’ culture in favour of 'foreign' culture. Well because Gaelic is not ‘our’ culture. It’s just part of our culture, along with the elements that come from Pakistan or Poland or Donegal or any of the other places that our people came from originally.
Second point – BoP says that had it not been for the election of Scotland’s first Muslim MSP we might not have seen the SNP in government. That’s not horsehit, that's a fair point in my view. The SNP won in 2007 by a single seat. Obviously it is not possible to state categorically which one seat that was! But it is certainly the case that without the hard work of Bashir Ahmad over many years the SNP would probably not have won Govan, would not have received the same number of votes on the list and therefore would have returned 4 Glasgow MSPs in total, not 5. Leaving us one short of victory. That outcome would not necessarily have given Labour the victory because my understanding is that if Bill Kidd had not been elected Tommy Sheridan would have been. But I am sure we would all rather not be dependent on Tommy Sheridan to be in power especially since he is facing a perjury trial.
As regards the substance of the story - yes the demonstration was crass and yes the police should have moved them on. But how you can go from condemning a demonstration in Luton to saying that we in Scotland give too much money to promoting 'these other cultures' in Scotland is beyond me. Where is the connection please?
In point of fact we do not give more to support minority cultures than we do to the mainstream. Read the Budget figures - 182 million pounds spent on promoting mainstream Culture and Gaelic (and that is not including additional spending on things like Homecoming) compared to 19.8 million for the entire equalities budget. Even if you assume that the entire equalities budget is spent on promoting minority culture - which it is not - that would only mean that a proportionate amount was spent.
So in closing I would say please get your facts right before commenting on these quite sensitive matters.
Oooh a bit of a debate going on hear. Firstly i do condem the small but vocal bunch of extremists that were out protesting at our troops but why the media gave so much coverage to 12 or 15 people is beyond me.
I have also read all the comments and i think some of you are taking this out of context. we are talking about a small group of fanatics.
I have to agree 100% with Indy on his comment although on the Gealic issue it is my understanding that around 20,000 gealic speakers live in Glasgow with a further 10,000 in the greater glasgow area and i would like to see Gealic given more importance in Scotland.
Indy and BOP are right, what has a bunch of fanatics got to do with our culture ? I thought Scotland was one nation with many cultures.
The Irish, French, English,Welsh,Dutch Polish, you name it they have all contribuated to our culture. Even some on the Island of Mull claim to be decendents from the Spanish armader and to this day you can still see the dark complection on them.
I am a little disapointed with some of the comments around Scottish culture and how its been eroded!! Who or what is eroding our culture ?
Maybe its people like me who dont have a Scottish name, has dark skin and has a father who was not born in Scotland that are eroding our culture.
I cant change who i am but im proud to be Scottish and just about every single Scottish tradition is alive and kicking in our family,im sorry if people like my father are eroding Scottish culture but its not intensional.
"Anyway BoP I'm glad you think there's no threat to Scotland but personally I'm not so sure. Call me a cynic if you like."
....................
Subrosa i have read BOP comment again. What threat to Scotland are you on about ? I dont see any ref in his post to a threat in Scotland
Spook some of BoP's post stated there was no threat to Scottish culture not there was a threat. I was just commenting upon his viewpoint as I agree at present there is none but I'm looking further down the road when I'll be kicking up daisies.
This post of mine is about members of HM Forces being subjected to abuse such as being called killers etc. The fact that it's done by muslim extremists is more or less immaterial, it could have been catholic extremists or protestant extremists. My point was that such language and threats should not be permitted in public against our military who have no voice to defend them, other than the likes of me. And I will defend them believe me, because the respect they get in this country is a disgrace.
Thanks for your post Indy. We have to agree to disagree about the amount of money that is spent on services for other cultures who refuse to integrate to our society. I picked up a leaflet in PRI yesterday and it's printed in 22 languages. There's no other country in Europe that I know prints everything in 22 languages. Also I know of several women in my own age group who have lived in Scotland for most of their lives and don't speak a word of English. It's not for the numerous attempts to persuade them to do so, because Dundee spends a great deal of money trying to do exactly that, with little success. I'm not clued up on how long Gaelic has been spoken as a language in parts of Scotland, others may know.
If you think this post was purely a racist attack on muslims then I apologise. It just so happened it was muslims who were involved. This post was mainly concerned with the treatment our military receive from all quarters. Also I wanted to say I was against these public parades as they do nothing military but Gordon Brown wants to show the British respect the military just like the Americans. No they don't, over the past 40 years the military have been treated very badly.
Our new multi-cultural friends are treated far better than the people who offer to protect each and every one of us. Just marvellous isn't it.
Here's a wee scenario. Dundee muslims have parades through the streets on occasion and colourful occasions they can be too. If half a dozen Dundonians (say indian, chinese and even the likes of me a plain boring agnostic), stood in the street waving banners with killer etc on while the peaceful parade went by, do you truthfully think we wouldn't be arrested? The muslims would jumping up and down with anger at being insulted etc and quite rightly.
These soldiers couldn't do that, they had to accept the insults without retaliation.
Sorry Indy, forgot to ask, what facts have I wrong? The only facts I stated were it appears minorities in England (the article is about Luton not Glasgow) are treated better and our military are treated disgracefully. I stick by that. They're facts.
I've just been reading all the posts on this and with a few exceptions, there has been no comment about the humiliation these soldiers went through during this parade.
Oh yes they're paid for it I can hear you say, that's their job and they chose to do it.
Let me say we're so damned lucky in this country that we have men and women willing to do the job, because in the last 10 years it's been the most awful job anyone could do. Many stick with it for reasons of loyalty and a desire to protect the likes of us. All our troops are British citizens whether catholic, protestant, muslim, hindu or whatever. Few of you have an conception of what these soldiers have been through over the years and of course the constant worry their families back home experience. Perhaps that's why you don't comment because it's unknown to you but it has to be recognised.
Most commenters decided to comment on the fact that muslims were involved in this protest and take issue with me about my comments regarding them. Did anyone hear any muslim leader condemn the behaviour of these extremists? I certainly didn't.
Did anyone hear any political leader praise the behaviour of the soldiers? Oh yes of course, the manny who's just saved the world said "We all support them." Patronising drivel. He's allowed pilots to fly in unsafe helicopters for years even after many were killed in one of these things.
Subrosa im defending our troops as well and all im saying is that the media has played into the likes of the BNP with its OTT coverage.
It was 12 extremists out protesting not a cummunity as some seem to be saying.
"This post of mine is about members of HM Forces being subjected to abuse such as being called killers etc. The fact that it's done by muslim extremists is more or less immaterial, it could have been catholic extremists or protestant extremists"
I agree with what you wrote Subrosa, im just a bit miffed as to why you and Scunnert have turned it into a cultural debate, maybe if it was Catholics that were prostesting then we wouldnt need to have brought up the cultural bit.
Subrosa you said ‘ What worries me scunnerr is that this spreads to Scotland. We give rather a bit too much to these other cultures in my opinion. Have a google at the amount of money that goes to 'promoting' any culture in Scotland but the indigenous. It's shocking.;’
The ‘we’ in question there I assume refers to Scotland not England?
As you suggested I googled it and that is where I got my figure of 182 million pounds to support mainstream and Gaelic culture and part of the 19.8 million equalities budget to support minority cultures.
Subrosa "Did anyone hear any muslim leader condemn the behaviour of these extremists? I certainly didn't."
....................
Maybe they were not given a platform on national tv to condem them but the Muslim Mayor of Luton was one of the first to welcome the troops home and i also so more (i persume muslims) in the crowd welcoming the troops back.
BOP brother has been out to Iraq twice, i doubt this protest by a few fanaticle islamic extremists would have even raised his eyebrow.
Spook it was a group of 20. They intend to spread these protests over the UK if you believe the papers. I do.
Yes I know BoP's brother has been out to Iraq. For many years I have had close association with the military so I know what goes on Spook, I'm not speaking out of a hole in my head, but I'm not prepared to say more because it could be detrimental to the lives and careers of some.
You don't really get my message though and if you think they weren't bothered let me assure you you're wrong. All they want after these gruelling months is to be with their nearest and dearest and not to have to parade through the streets because Gordon Brown thinks it's a good idea.
Good reply Indy and I see where you're coming from now. Yes I did say that to scunnert because I was really p!ssed off yesterday, when I was at PRI, to find some leaflet was printed in 22 languages.
When we (I mean us Scots) spend so much money promoting language classes for minorities, why is this necessary? In my area there are Polish workers who come here for summer work but they at least attempt the language.
If you read the article in yesterday's Times you will notice they say these extremists intend to do many more of these protests over the UK.
As for expenditure on Gaelic you're far more clued up on it than me but does that mean we have to spend the equivalent on other languages when we have schools which are falling down because they've been left to rot for 30+ years? If anyone wants to learn English the facilities are readily available. I'd be interested on the pick-up rate as a ratio of cultures.
You're far better at googling than me :)
"Indy says Gaelic is not our culture but part of it - just like elements from Pakistan and Poland. He maintains that promotion of Gaelic in Glasgow is "ridiculous tokenism", and suggests that if Glasgow wants to be a "modern city" it should be providing services which "support" that - presumably in Polish or Urdu.
Indy further supports BoP in his contention that: "had it not been for the election of Scotland’s first Muslim MSP we might not have seen the SNP in government. That’s not horsehit."
Personally, I think that the SNP won the election because Labour failed in their attempt to rig it in their favour. Bashir Ahmad had so much respect for Scotland and her culture that he dressed in traditional Pakistani dress and spoke Urdu for his swearing in. This was the man who said Scotland was a good place for Pakistanis to come to because everyone was an immigrant. To me that seems more like contempt than respect.
As a kid I used to wonder why there was more programming in Urdu on the BBC than there was in Gaelic. Presumably they agreed with Indy that it wasn't "our" culture anymore and did their best to ensure that was the case.
The success of the multicultural agenda is amply demonstrated by Indy who equates "modernity" with having a population that speaks 88 languages. A population whose presence is due to a deal between Glasgow City Council and the Labour government to house illegals in their empty slums. Aye - a very modern metropolis.
But we are assured of the benefits of having a multicultural population through the governments attempts to educate the unconvinced - "unity through diversity" they tell us. A unity on display in Luton yesterday, and Glasgow airport a couple of years back. Just ask Kriss Donald about the benefits of muticulturalism - he'll tell ye - not.
But no - no mention of the atrocities that have resulted from the multicultural steamroller, the Wahabi mosque in Edinburgh city centre, Kriss's murder, the attempted mass murder at the airport. We aren't supposed to talk about those things. These were exceptions to the rule, I suppose.
Spook - this isn't about the colour ae yer skin or where yer daddy came fae. It;s about language, traditions, and sovereignty. Scots are a very hospitable people but really, some folks just like takin the mickey.
I object to a government that thinks it's a okay to bring in masses of foreigners and justifies it through stupid slogans. What motivated the UK government to embark on this road in the first place? Anybody know? Did they just decide it would be the nice thing to do?
Aye - horseshit.
Thanks for your post scunnered.
"I'm not speaking out of a hole in my head, but I'm not prepared to say more because it could be detrimental to the lives and careers of some."
......................
Sobrosa you have lost me on that one ?? As for the troops not being botherd, i doubt a few islamic extremists protesting would have botherd them after what they have gone through in Iraq.
And ii do know that the troops just want to get home to their loved ones, of course they do.
Spook - this isn't about the colour ae yer skin or where yer daddy came fae. It;s about language, traditions, and sovereignty. Scots are a very hospitable people but really, some folks just like takin the mickey.
...........................
Ah i see, i get it now, so we should all go about with Ginger hair and dress in kilts to make us a Scot ? Okay ..
As for the Gov letting to many in, yes the UK gov does seem to turn a bling eye to the amount of imagrents that come in, that i do agree with.
Kriss Donald murder, Yes he was murderd by Asians and some Asians have attacked whites but you seem to be labling a hole cumunity under the one roof.
Sometimes i think we in Scotland have short memories, 8 million Scots in Cananda, 60 million in the USA, 3 million in Auz, 800,000 in NZ but i dont hear the nativs complaining.
Scotland has 2% Asian in is popualtion, hardy a threat to our culture is it ?
Spook, I said the word culture meaning the Scottish culture of our music, language etc. If you're interested in being less lost email me and I'll explain. My email's on my blog here.
I'll tell you a wee story about our multi-race culture. Last year I was at a small conference in Dundee about how to persuade ethnic minorities to take up the opportunities to speak English.
One Asian lad, slightly older than you I think, stood up and explained he was a first generation Scots Asian but he had difficulty getting his mother to attend any classes and his grandmother wouldn't even discuss it.
Then he said, "My girlfriend's a red headed Scot complete with freckles. We're getting married next year and parents don't approve. They would prefer I marry an Asian girl. My mother's greatest worry now is that she could be the grandmother of a well-tanned red headed child. Possibly my children will be the trigger than makes my mother speak English, I certainly hope so."
This lad received a standing ovation for his thinking. His mother should be proud that she has brought up her children and encouraged them to take a full part in Scottish society, even though she herself finds it difficult.
yes yes thats all fine and dandy...dandy and fine but what has it to do with a "soldiers molarity"
Niko, as Conan said, it was a typo, just leave it please.
To put this whole thing into context there are thousands upon thousands of Muslims in Luton/Dunstable and the fact that only a handful were portrayed as a mob speaks volumes for the media in this country.
However it does suit the government's plans if all Muslims can be portrayed as potential terrorists.
Try as I might, I fail to see what this has to do with racism in Scotland. There are racist elements in all countries and as all racism is based on fear and ignorance only knowledge and education will eradicate the problem.
Rosie naughty niko cannae leave it, he types one handed.
AMW got it right when he said that after what these troops had been through a few rent a gobs waving placards and calling them names would be like water of a ducks back.
What the troops want is to enjoy their precious time of and try and sort out there heads before the next op which will not be far down the line.
They do not want to be paraded in public as political footballs to salve the conscience of the MOD or the liars that sent them there with duff equipment.
What they do want is decent housing, good military medical care and the knowledge that they are getting the best gear possible to do the job. What they don't want is to be shunted home injured possibly disabled to be treated in an NHS general ward, they need to feel they are among there own.
RAF civilian typists get £250,000 for RSI, whilst a soldier who lost both legs gets £60,000, enough said.
'Ah i see, i get it now, so we should all go about with Ginger hair and dress in kilts to make us a Scot ? Okay ..'
Auch Spook you ken fine scunnert isnae saying that at all. Think you're being a wee bitty over sensitive. I no more think of you as anything but a Scot and a patriotic one at that.
Then again, you could think I'm just a stupid pensioner with stupid views - you may well be right.
Scunnert I am afraid you display all the traits of a truly insular British nationalist. Your assumption, for example, that everybody who speaks more than one language is an asylum seeker. Can you really not imagine a world where people come to Scotland because they want to, because it is a great country, not because they have been shipped there by the Home Office?
You speak of ‘Kriss’s’ murder as though you knew him which I am 100% certain you did not, nor his family. If you did you would be aware of the support they received from their councillor. Are murders exceptions to the rule? Yes. Does the fact that Kriss Donald’s psychopathic murder was Asian mean that all Asians are psycopathtic murderers? Duh.
Your comments about Bashir Ahmad are extraordinarily offensive. This was a man who worked so hard for the cause of independence he worked himself into an early grave. If you have converted even the tiniest fraction of the people that Bashir converted to independence I would be mightily surprised.
The truly sad aspect of your comments that Bashir thought Scotland was the greatest country on earth, he really believed that. He never tired of telling the story of how he first arrived in Scotland with only a few shillings in his pocket and all his possessions wrapped up in brown paper. His family had arranged for someone to pick him up but that person never arrived so all Bashir had was an address on a bit of paper. He showed it to the driver of the bus he got onto. The driver said right son and after he had finished his route he drove Bashir in his bus to the address in Pollokshields and made sure he was OK. Bashir always said that was his first taste of the immense kindness and generosity of the Scottish people. He more than repaid the kindness and generosity that was shown to him . Alex Salmond said of Bashir: ‘He was probably the most patriotic Scot that I have ever met.’
Bashir probably knew sod all about Gaelic but his dedication to the people of Scotland was second to none and for me, as for most active nationalists, that’s what it’s all about - not about a dead or dying language, not about some officially approved and suitably Aryan culture. It’s about the people.
Subrosa i might be acting a little over sensitive but i honestly dont agree with Scunnerts views on this.
As for your views, no they are not stupid and for the most part i agree with what you have said, its just the cultural bit.
To be honest Subrosa i think its like this. If an Aberdeen Supporter slags Hibs then im not to upset but if a Hearts Supporter slags Hibs then that is not on.
I think the debate today has something in comon with that theme.
.................
Yes Spook perhaps it does. Culture is a relative thing. Being a Dundonian my culture possibly varies from one of a borderer, in fact I know it does. People have fought and died to protect their cultures and the Scots tend to protect theirs more fiercely than the English.
How the discussion got to Bashir Ahmed I've no idea, but I don't see anyone mentioning him in a bad light. I haven't mentioned him because he's not relevant to this event.
My point was that these extremists could easily bring their hatred to Scotland and we must be prepared to deal with that should it happen.
Thanks for your contribution, it's been an interesting debate. I should thank everyone - so thanks everyone.
Indy said...
"Scunnert I am afraid you display all the traits of a truly insular British nationalist."
Indy yer being offensive - haughty even. It may interest you to know that one of my grandsons is half Italian and speaks the language fluently. One of my grand daughters is half French and, although only three, is learning that language along with English (that's the rug rat Subrosa). My other three grandchildren identify themselves as black. I myself used to be fairly fluent in German - but that was many years ago.
Hardly the bio of an insular Brit Nat.
As far as Bashir Ahmad goes, I found it highly offensive when he described Scotland as a nation of immigrants. That you didn't speaks volumes.
That the Wahabis have set up an indoctrination centre in the heart of Edinburgh I find offensive. That plural marriages are allowed in Scotland I find offensive. That first cousin marriages are practiced within the muslim community in Scotland I find offensive. That forced marriages are practiced within the muslim community in Scotland I find offensive. That muslim doctors tried to bomb Glasgow airport I find offensive. That the host nation is required to accommodate these ethnic cultural practices while restricting their own traditions for fear of causing offense I find offensive. Your suggestion that I have no right to feel outrage at Kriss's horrible murder because I didn't know him personally - I also find offensive - extraordinarily offensive even.
Finally, I have known many Scots from various ethnic backgrounds who embraced Scotland and Its culture. They would be just as offended as I am in these matters. Again Spook - it's no aboot the colour ae yer skin or where yer daddy came fae.
Indy - you seem tae be wan ae thon self-congratulatory cosmopolites who disnae like tae be contradicted. Tough.
Apologies to Subrosa for this wee stushie - personally this is the kind of action I'm looking for. I enjoy the cut and thrust of a good argument. Unfortunately, this wasn't it. The arguments were weak, relied on emotive language, and bordered on personal insult. Naw - that's no true - they used personal insults instead of logic, and force of argument. I must try something really provocative on my wee blog - see if I can't get a decent debate going.
Cheers
Scunnert, you've no need to apologise to me for anything.
I have to agree with you about the lack of logic in some arguments and thought last night, how did it all get to the CV of Bashir Ahmed when, if people read the Times article, they would understand what I said in my penultimate paragraph.
Indy calling you a British nationalist was offensive but he/she has a narrow agenda and doesn't want to look at the wider picture. In Scotland we have a balance which is tilting towards pleasing minorities rather than the indigenous (there's that word again which seems to upset some) population and that worries me. The present Scottish government don't seem to have any controls in place to monitor this, in fact they actively encourage some to be divisive. The other week I was shocked to discover that we allow multiple marriages in Scotland. That is against the very bedrock of our society.
I look forward to contributing to your debate scunnert as I seem to learn something more about my country. Must dash, Perth is calling.
Post a Comment