Click on image to enlarge
I received my share of the £7m swine flu leaflet yesterday morning, did you? After glancing at the content my attention was caught by the back page. It is an order form for more copies or alternative formats, which include Welsh, French, Polish, Bengali, Chinese, Urdu, Arabic, Punjabi, Somali, Gujarati with Portuguese, Turkish, simplified form Chinese, Farsi/Dari, Spanish and Tamil available on certain websites.
As I wondered if the £7m included translating this 'publication' into these languages, it suddenly struck me - where's Gaelic? Not a mention of Scots Gaelic to be seen anywhere.
We have a Scottish PM. Why didn't he ensure Gaelic was included? I'll give you a clue - he is deeply embedded into the south of England elite. He has no interest in Scotland other than votes.
So pleased to know that Nicola Sturgeon won't be announcing one of these for Scotland. It seems the Westminster health secretary can't do his job so has to employ someone to do it for him - at our expense of course.
Posts
47 comments:
Brilliant post. If your not careful, you we become Scotland's version of Joanna Lumley!
Of course, we borrowed this money at 20% interst, minimum!
Well that makes it all right then OR, the Scots islanders can be the sacrifice.
7m to tell us to blow our noses. Still, it's only wallpaper!
You got the paypal payment then Howard? Flattery gets you everywhere!
Or perhasp there is no Gaelic version becauce there is not asingle person in the UK that speaks Gaelic but is not fluent in English?
This is a public health leaflet not a political statement - a raod sign or a TV Channel
And if you are so upset why not complain to Nicola or Shona Robson ( YOUR OWN msp?) ? - They after all are the Scottish Health Ministers - and I would put my life on the Scottish Health Departments they preside over having been consulted on this leafelt prior to its printing and distribution. Get them to print up Gaelic vesion ot sit and gather dust in a cupboard in Edinburgh when not a single person requests a copy for the reason I state above.
Your Londan conspiracy theory just dont add up - Welsh is on the lists. Why? - near certain beacuse the WeLsh Assembly minister raised the issue and Scottish Ministers didnt
But you blame Gordon Brown!
Brown is useless - but do you honestly think he came within a million miles of this leaflet or tHe prcess which drafted it? Id be distrurbed if any PM wasted his time on this.
And I suspect of a list of grievances folks in the Western Isles had about their Government(s) this one would ocome about number ten thousand and forty second
You have your own government in Scotland, let it pay for your language and not the UK taxpayers.
You're also welcome to take Gordon Brown back, he's not wanted here either.
Morning Quiet Man. So you're quite happy to be paying for all these other languages yet you obviously don't agree with the use of BRITISH taxpayers money to pay for Gaelic?
I think if you did a poll in Scotland you would know Gordon Brown isn't wanted here either. The US may be the best place for him.
A hope there is a west of scotland dialect version!
Morning AWC. I know what the leaflet is supposed to be, but in truth it's aimed at around 6 - 8 year olds. So you think it's fine that Welsh is acknowledged and not Gaelic? OK that't fine by me. Most Welsh also speak English though - just thought I'd let you know.
Shona Robson my MP? Nope. I wonder how many of the leaflets are printed in each of these languages will languish in cupboards as you say.
So you're sure it's all the fault of the Scottish government? I'm not so sure. I know many MSPs of all parties support the Gaelic language.
Now I can tell you something young man. I wrote the article with my tongue in my cheek, but obviously you don't see satire between the lines. That then is your problem and not mine. Of course Gordon Brown wouldn't be proof reading some silly leaflet. My comments were also a dig at the endless money which is spent on health leaflets found in surgeries and hospitals which are translated into at least 20 languages.
Smile, today's another day.
Aye Rab I did think about asking where the east and west coast Scots was plus of course the Edinburghese, but thought the satire would be too obvious then. It may have helped Aye We Can understand the post more though don't you think.
Gaels don't do demos, protests, or human rights complaints. I may be up in Lewis this Autumn - I'll canvas their opinions.
Morning Subrosa,
I have issues with Welsh being subsidised by the English too, they have their own Assembly and like Scotland their own NHS. Frankly I have no idea why the leaflet wasn't simply produced in English with anyone unable to read it having to get their own translators, I suppose you could make a point about only producing translations to those languages native to the Isles though. As for the other languages, I see only a divisive and expensive multicultural attempt to mollify minorities, after all if they live here, the first thing they should be doing is learning one of the native languages in order to interact with society. I know that not everyone in the country speaks English, however it should not be the policy of the government (Local or otherwise) to provide translations from the native tongues, that surely is the responsibilty of those who can't or wont speak English, Welsh or Gaelic.
I suspect you're right about Gordon only being after your votes though. I doubt it will help much this time though as he has a genuine knack of alienating everyone who comes into contact with him.
SR,
I love your witty repostes, it's like giving the posters who didn't actually get the post a paper cut and rubbing it with lemon juice!
Yes Gaelic should be included, but clearly we are an after thought, we didn't chose to speak English it was forced upon us. I know Doric isn't an official language but it is a recognised dialect.
Have a nice day,
Moran Taing
Crazy D
The explanation is obvious - Gaelic speakers are immune from Flying Pig Flu. There will be no Parmageddon in Stornoway.
I believe a second government leaflet is planned, advising everyone to learn Gaelic as soon as possible and forget English right away. Driven by these rumours, bookshops are already selling out of Gaelic dictionaries and phrase books, although Waterstones reported that there might be some misunderstanding among members of the public about the actual subject matter of the slim volume called 'Brush Up Your Erse'.
The Daily Mash carries some in-depth analysis of the pandemic.
Oidhche mhath
welcome to the wikio rankings
http://www.wikio.co.uk/blogs/top/politics
Maybe the government recognises that Gaels are civilised enough to know that when you sneeze you do it into a hanky and that you should wash you hands regularly.
Jim
morning subrosa
I did not pick up on your irony -, just read your post again, still dont. Just read the other comments as well, and they aint picked up on it. Your irony seems to have been lost in translation - and an odd subject matter to be ironic about
Regarding "Welsh, French, Polish, Bengali, Chinese, Urdu, Arabic, Punjabi, Somali, Gujarati with Portuguese, Turkish, simplified form Chinese, Farsi/Dari, Spanish and Tamil" , I can see the eminant sense of printing leafets in these languages, with the possible exception of Welsh, for the same reason as I metion for Galic. But 20% plus of the population of Wales speak Welsh, less that 1% of the Scottish population speak Gaelic, so I would not fall out with the welsh over this.
But my point rermains, - it is up to the Scottish Goverment to decide this, not the UK one, But you condem Brown ( it dont read too ironic to me) and praise Nicola , albeit for not doing something
And if you are having an ironic dig at the "PC" brigade for realising there are recent immigrants and visitors to this counrty whose english is poor, I dont at all agree with you. In public health terms this is money well spent - we know people most vulnerable to Swine Flu are those who have travelled abroad recently or have contact with people who have come from abroad, so these other language editions represent for me good government, money well spent on high risk groups. You seem to be edging into the camp of UKIP or worse here - if your point was not to complain about the omission of Gaelic, but rather the inclusion of Somali etc
And of all the languages, I reckon Spanish is the most useful, but all are - just natty people going on about Gaelic, and to an extent welsh that are the poseurs.
Ang Gaelic in general - I personally am very supportive of it, and here, for all its many faults, I think the NuLab UK government has been very supprtive - the most supprtive UK Giovernment ever. As has bene the Scottiish Executive under Labour and now I think also the SNP Scottish Government.
I still dont quite see the point you are trying to make in you originl post, ironic or otherwise. It still reads to me a knee jerk reaction to the idea that Polish, Farsi or Urdu etc, have a higher status than Gaelic - which in the context of a Swine Flu public health information leaflet, they should have.
Morning again quiet man. Now I can agree with you. All government publications should only be available in English and if people don't speak it then they'll learn quickly enough.
We're spending so much money on all these translation services then with the other hand giving money to projects to help incomers speak English, just doesn't make sense.
Wish someone would tell me if any other European country spends so much on translation services. I know 3 or them who certainly don't.
I'm sure you know QM that areas of Scotland have a strange relationship with the labour party and it is said that people in those areas would vote for a monkey wearing a red rosette.
As a Gaelic speaker I'm not really bothered either way but I would be surprised if there are more Portuguese or Tamil speakers in Scotland then there are Gaelic speakers.
Morning CD. Auch you make me sound like some wicked granny who promises a sweetie if you eat up yer porridge then reneges on the deal.
Doric is as understandable to be as English could be to the speakers of all these foreign languages.
Have a nice day too, pouring rain and high winds today.
Ah Vronsky, the person I can reply on to advise us of further developments. I must get my dictionary when in Perth later. Does having one gain me points? I've never had any success learning Gaelic, like most languages I'm sure it's best learned when you're about 5 years of age if not earlier.
I shall go and read your Daily Mash article right now.
ps I do so like your avitar, that's a painting I've always admired.
Jing OH, I'm on the same page as you that must mean I'm entitled to be honoured at Edinburgh Castle does it? (I know you get your honours from that place starting with a B, Buck House or somewhere it's called).
Thanks so much for letting me know. Thanks really is down to the likes of Craig Murray etc who do links to me so muchas appreciados to you all. I don't understand the links business in the least but I must be doing something right.
You could well be right Jim. Doesn't Alistair Darling have a but 'n ben in the islands? (Although I'm informed it's rather a posh house).
Great point (irony acknowledged). As this is a UK (i.e. England & Wales) leaflet it doesn't consider our Celtic demographic (although I'm puzzled why French might be in there). The Scottish Government have their eye on the ball and have all the versions plus Gaelic (at the top) at: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Health/health/AvianInfluenza/mexicanswiuneflu/translations
Still no recognition for Pictish..?
Morning AWC, I'm sorry to hear you didn't pick up the mood of my post. Truthfully there are far more important things going on in this country than the fact Gaelic has been left off a leaflet. Mind you, there is the serious matter of the vast sums of cash spent on these publications and the relevant translation services. I don't know the percentage who speak Welsh but, as you said yourself, the Welsh also speak English.
I didn't exactly 'praise' Nicola for not doing anything - it was my way of saying I hope Scotland wasn't going to go down this road.
AWC all countries have immigrants but I doubt many spend as much as we do on translation services. A serious point is that by offering these services free immigrants are not motivated to learn English.
Now and again I write something slightly lighter than normal. Writing about the deaths of soldiers, the state of our economy and the disintegration of the present UK government can be wearing you know.
For the rest of the month I shall do my best to brush up on my ability to write irony. Maybe it's been worn down by continually being in close proximity to an Everton supporter.
Ah QM, Aye We Can won't like your comment you know :) He's convinced this leaflet was proof read by the Scottish government and approved by them. Thanks for clarifying the situation and also taking the trouble to look at the Scottish government website for me.
French stuck in there did seem strange too (the Germans will be jumping up and down if they knew) and could you enlighten me as to which part of the world speaks Gujarati? I could google it but I'm sure you know it without me having to search.
Oh I did mean to say QM, I was actually gutted Pictish wasn't there. That's my heritage and I visit the family stones in Perthshire at least once every decade. My devotion to my fundamental culture knows no bounds.
But brownlie, the fact you speak more than one language fluently makes you a linguist. It's not so long ago I was given that title too - my Dundeese has improved greatly since I returned to Scotland.
Possibly misjudging your irony again (I'll get it eventually), but Gujarati is one of those regional languages from India (native in fact to Gujarat) which a lot of older British Indians will be more familiar with than 'modern' English. Perfectly valid for it to be there. Likewise Bengali, Urdu and Punjabi. (I prefer Telugu myself...)
Might be a bit tricky to deliver Ogham-inscribed stones en masse...
Why not dump the translations altogether. That way the lazy, unpatriotic bastards who refuse to or cannot speak English (the language of God) will all die horribly of Flu and save us the bother.
Subosa
You now have clarified your position it aint about Galic . Rather it is - and correct me if I misrepresenbt you - that these types of leaflets should only be published in English.
So the immigrants, should learn English - or run the risk of catching swine flu. aids, SARS, MRSA etc as well I presume?
How very Bitish Empire may I say? And how incredibly stupid in terms of combatting a potential health epedemic - use it as a means to get those pesky immigrants to learn the queens english - whilst failing to get vital health information about a virus, to some of the most at risk groups
And about a virus, that if it gets established anywhere in our country, will shut schools, cities, factories, and potentially kill lots of people irrespective of orgin or language skills,
Brilliant! ( and here , for the benefit of doubt. here I am being satirical)
Glad this ain't the Scottoish Government line, Glad this ain't the UK government line.
And Brownlee - you aint bothered as a Gaelic speaker because you can clerly speak and write perfect english. I doubt the same could be said for mosat Tamils living here, or many Portugeuse ( Brazillians mostly - kind of close to Mexico , closer than Stornoway anyway)
But why let a sensible public health information campaign get in the way of that nat chip on the shoulder? Blame Brown, the English the union, and now the immigrants for everything - even potentially saving your lives
Oh AWC it's pillory me morning is it?
OK, yes the leaflet should only be available in English. Libraries have PCs available for all to use so those folks who don't speak English can go there and log on. Then of course you'll say they can't work a PC.
Another wee story AWC. I spent 20 years of my working life in Europe and I assure you I managed to understand what was going on that was of importance regardless of my lack of ability initially to understand. Without governments to give me free interpreters I learned the languages pronto because I knew that was the only way I would be able to get a decent job.
Two of these countries offered free language classes for a period of 6 months and although they were never marked as mandatory if you didn't pass the exams at the end then your work permit was removed and you were asked to leave.
Oh yes you'll say but that was years ago and that's true but these country's policies benefitted me - not financially but educationally.
I have no axe to grind about facilities for immigrants improving but there has to be a limit. We're way beyond any sensible limit.
Oh WW, where's your compassion my man? I thought it was the hope of the Westminster government that baby boomers would be wiped out by this non-pandemic. The likes of me need thinning out as we're too expensive. After all, it's far more important to ensure our non-English speaking residents have free translations. Why should they learn the language?
Ha ha QM. Thank goodness my cycling days are over cause I don't think the bike would have coped either.
Thanks for that QM. Some years ago I had quite a bit to do with the Indian community in Dundee (most courteous and pleasant people) but I never heard this mentioned. It's possibly similar to Doric and Scots, the difference I mean. Doric I can't understand but I do most Scots.
I'm off for a Dundee facelift shortly so I shall ask around if I have time and see how popular it is there.
Subrosa
Do do they take these english classes before or after thet catch swine flu?
And Ive heard this " when I was a youth, i got up off my backside and,...." stuff somewhere before - From Norman Tebbit and Maggie T.
I really do object to educated middle class people telling often vulnerable, poorly educated people ( even in their native language) what thet should be doing. Beacuse their context quite different, Do you have the sligtest clue how some people end up on this country? - arriving literally shoesless burnt out their homes in fear of their lives in some cases. Women, particularly young women deliberately kept ignorant of English to keep them in sevidute by their male minders: You did read yesteday about the treatment of these young girls smuggled into this courty from China and then abducted into the sex trade. The very last thing their pimps would want them to learn is english.
But these people, and of course people in much less acute, but still vulnerable circumstances you would deny basic public health information becuause - and i repeat it - your British Empire view of the world.
Of course these folks should learn to speak english, will indeed want to learn n 99% of cases,. But learning a language for some people is difficult, reading even in their own lanmguage foir some people is diffucult, life in general for some people is difficult
On this one - if you are right, if (and I doubt it) the rest of Europe is so mono lingual in its outlook -I am proud of the UK Government and The Scottish Government - becase aside from the vital health advice thse multilingual leaflets really do say "welcome to our country, we care" Ive seen this with my own - eyes - young people , old people sick people seening that their council, their government, their heath board, really does understand their difficlties, has made an effort to help them. It is uplifting just to see their smiles, their sense of hope.
And doing this the authorities protect me, my kids and others from the spread of swine flu - and in public spending terms for buttons
Ask yourelf, real deep, why you object?
Remember your words when you're my age AWC. Don't ever make reference to your younger life or you'll be ridiculed.
Yes I do have ideas of how some desperately needy folk arrive here AWC but I shan't give examples as they'll be used to class me as a middle class British Empire flag waving unionist.
Now laddie I'm not being rude, but I'm desperately in need of a Dundee facelift and I have an appointment for one shortly so forgive me if I cut this comment short.
One thing I will say do you honestly think that publication would contribute to saving lives? Ask yourself, real deep.
Yeh I it will save lives
Yes, you are middle class and privilaged
And you dont have the slightest clue about what integration and multi -culturalism mean. what community building is about in this context.
And Im nealy 50, no laddie - but have worked on and off with overseas students, asylum students and ethnic groups over three decades. Lived in polloksheilds for almost ten years, whre I campaigned agaisn the innate racism of the Scottish middle class to get both Mohamaned Sawar and than the late and great Bashir Ahmad elcted to Glasgow City Coucil
And I know I speak for Bashir
AWC, the only way nations flourish is by dealing with their demons. Those who are "shoesless burnt out their homes in fear of their lives" should stand and fight. The only way this country became great was because we stood and fought it out with each other until some semblance of order transpired.
I take as an example, the United States of America. They were a nation of asylum seekers I suppose, except that they fled to a god-awful wilderness that nobody wanted, not a place that was overpopulated and straining under the weight of unfettered immigration.
They built a new nation on sheer hard work, and spent the first few years starving and executing women as witches. (Why does everyone need a scapegoat for the shit that happens?)
After a while, some bastards in Red Coats tried to subjugate them and they fought it out - and won.
Look at Zimbabwe. It's a mess. And yet the regime is propped up by an army of the venal and pusilanimous who prefer to join the oppressors, rather than fight for the good of a once prosperous country.
You can say many things about asylum seekers but top of my list is that they are cowards who spread their cowardice like a virus that is far worse than flu. Do you really think we should let them come and spread the contagion?
Aye we can
I do not have a chip on my shoulder, nationalist or otherwise. I would suggest that you sort your own attitude out first before commenting on mine. Whilst you seem to be some kind of apologist for Brown I made no mention of blaming Brown or, indeed, anyone. What do you think gives you the right to, without a shred of evidence, make assumptions about my attitude to the English or to immigrants?
Brownlee
Me an apologist for Brown? Visit my blog see how wrong you are. And cross referencing to SNP tactical voting's "Cybernats" thread - here we have it one again. Dissagree with a nat, this time on immigration indeed nationality (a fundamental issue for nationalists, surely?) and you are a nulab plant or worse
Yet on immigration you lot - not you personally Brownlee, I generalise - appear to me to have more in common with the right of the Tory psrty than even Nulab ( who are bad ,but not that bad on the issue). Indeed you are well out of line with SNP policy , which is generally very progressive on this issue
I stand by my comments - aint trying to wind up anyone, But I am unapologetic in my strong defense of vulnerable, indeed often very brave peope in the face of what I would mildly call ill informed opinion.
Scotland is far from full - every economic study on ths subject says that we ideally should have a population of 6-7 million, But we are stuck on 5 with an ageing population and a hugh, near exclusively white and "native" population living permenantly off benefits - that unproductive "underclass" we read about.
Immigrants, asylum seekers, illegals are statistically and provably amongst the hardest working and least benefit dependant people in Scotland, And from experince, amongst the most friendly, dynamic, entrepreneurial and ecummentical. And the proudest of Scots when given then chance. And by god or allah, they know the difference between Scotland, England, Britain
Wrinled Weasel mentions the USA ( but not the natvive american casulaties) But do look at it in a late 20th century an early 21st century context. Who are the productve , growth driving, creative, and indeed mostly non corrupt, sections of the most successful economy in the world? And where did Obama come from?
And back to Scotland - where are we to get the new generation of 250,000 plus active working age skilled people we desperately need in a hurry? We aint breading -and where we are its largely in underlass estates, for the kids to cost us a fotrune to bring up, only for mosty of them to join their benefit dependant mums and dads on the benefit gravy train. Look at these stats in Glasgow city in particular - horrofioc , twice as bad as any other city in the UK, even Liverpool. Indeed the core of the city's Labour vote. They inately knw no Indepmdent scotland would, could carry them - 20% 0f th working age population of our largest city permanently doing nothing other than living of the rest of us - and moaning about immigrants, because they wrongly percibve them as taking a wee slice of their cake
And it is all just a white mans myth about the sponging immigrants, Go to McDonald, Subway, stay after a shift and see who cleans your offcie etc, Look who is delivering the promise of free care for our elderly. And are these immigrants, New Scots, Id call them stealing jobs? Nope, just doing jobs "our" "unemployed" and "disabled" wont get out their beds to do.
This is Scotland. This is a problem we need to deal with in or out of the union. New Scots are part of the solution, not a problem at all.
Ive seen the mono culture oF Larkhall, Bearsden,Pollok or Broughty Ferry - and you can stick it. Give me Hillhead or Sighthill any day, New York City, Las Vegas or Dublin
There you will see the future - and it works
I wasn't going to reply to you AWC as you have now personalised the debate but I will for reasons which should become clear.
My background is working class and brought up in a tenement like thousands of others. Nowadays I suppose this is thought of as middle class.
As for being privileged, yes I am, very much so. I'm privileged because I was born into a bankrupt Britain which had to borrow from the US just to survive but my grandparents and parents generations worked so hard to improve things for my generation.
I'm privileged because I had a free Scottish school education; I'm privileged because I've met so many people from all walks of life who have shared their knowledge and thoughts with me and thereby enhanced my life; I'm privileged because I have been blessed with good health most of my life and haven't had one of the dreadful diseases which have affected some of my peers and I'm privileged because I've been loved far more than hated.
To try the race card just won't do AWC, you'll have to do better.
Aye we can,
I obviously looked at your posts more carefully than you've looked at mine. Have a look at my initial entry and see if you can justify your attack on my principles.
Have you ever read any of my serious blog entries?
I have been defending the rights of vulnerable individuals for the past twenty years and not always from the safety of a blog so I'm not taking lectures from you on my attitude to vulnerable individuals.
I would ask you not to generalise. I think we see too much of that both on blogs and on newspaper forum.
I'm pleased you've seen the mono culture of Broughty Ferry because I haven't although I remember we referred to it in a similiar manner as Edinburgh when I was young.
Whose fault is it AWC that the "unemployed" and 'disabled" won't get out of their beds to work? It's certainly not the fault of millions like me who have worked hard all their lives, paid taxes, stayed within the law, but you appear to be blaming the middle class. If the middle class didn't work and produce the taxes then people doing your work may not have a job.
Bring immigrants in by all means but let's have some common sense attached to it.
Ask yourself, why do these illegal immigrants, who don't speak English so that can't be an excuse, not stop at other European countries but are desperate to get to the UK.
Post a Comment