Have a read of this. All I can say is that parents protest loud and long at this intrusion into their children's lives.
The excuse from NHS Tayside is typical of a Common Purpose response.
Sheila, a regular reader, keeps an eagle eye on the social engineering which quietly continues in Scotland.
Yes, I'm angry and I'd be happy to join any protest Tayside parents organise. My worry is that it's too late and future children will never know the delights of childhood. Why are these people interested in the sexual habits of 14 - 16 year olds? Do they really think girls of that age will tell the truth in a questionnaire?
Of course girls of 14-16 are much more sexually aware and active than they were 50 years ago, but does the local council have any right to interfere to this degree?
Note that the Evidence2Success survey cost £225,000. A disgraceful waste of money which could be spent on educating our children about responsibility in life.
If it is essential for our health service to have this type of information, it would be much more appropriate - and hopefully receive more candid replies - if they asked adults in the 21 - 25 age group. Maybe they're too aware that adults would give them short shrift.
so this got me thinking
ReplyDeleteI'm 45 & went to a grammar school & when was sex taught & discussed in a class by a teacher?
it was 12 years old in the second year, I remember the class & some of the questions asked, what it was for, why we "did it"
it certainly wasn't in primary school
I also remember how the teacher got a sixth former pregnant & not long after leaving how he'd been arrested after getting £10,000 from another teacher & setting himself up as a doctor & surgeon operating on women until one came round from the "gas" before he'd finished operating on her, so I do think that even then his class might not have been age appropriate [just a predator "grooming" potentials?]
I read a recent article on the lowering of IQ's & think there must be something in the water if any parent isn't up in arms about this very clear social engineering as you've rightly called it, people get exactly what they vote for & the "government" gets exactly what it pays for to be implemented
if people don't complain then they consent
Oh the irony.
ReplyDelete1. The survey ought to be entitled "Evidence2Failure"
2. The atrociously worded, leading questions -
Pupils were asked whether “all in all, I am inclined to think that I am a failure”, whether “life is not worth it”
....should have been given positive slants by asking if pupils considered themselves a success, and, that lifr is worth it.
Whoever composed that part ought to be formally reprimanded, if only because it blatantly contradicted the survey's title.
Whilst I’m not against education authorities and health boards wishing to better understand the lives and attitudes of our children. Such research must be done to the highest ethical standards with great sensitivity and the utmost tact.
ReplyDeleteSadly however …
In this instance both NHS Tayside and Perth & Kinloss Council failed abysmally in every aspect of what they have done.
To put it simply, they got it wrong from start to finish.
Some might, justifiably, argue that in the case of younger primary school children such intrusive questions could be construed as abuse.
Common Purpose = evil.
ReplyDelete- Aangirfan
Some story that dognamedblue. Perhaps that's why I think sex education ought to be conveyed by parents/family. If they're not prepared to do it then they shouldn't be in charge of children.
ReplyDeleteMaybe what is needed is sex education classes for parents so as they can feel comfortable discussing it with their children.
Indeed Joe. Dreadful questions and against everything we've been taught about 'how to ask questions without giving the answer'.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately JRB, I have a feeling this could be one of those 'surveys' which is rolled out over Scotland. Time for a letter to the head of P & K council I think.
ReplyDeleteIt is Anon and I think it's time I did a wee bit about it again.
ReplyDeleteCould just be me this morning, but I get a strong feeling that a problem was needed to result in a particular
ReplyDeletesolution.
Most of the problems we have are the unintended consequences of the application of half-arsed policies
dreamed up by apparatchiks with no common sense and no conception of the problems they would cause by applying these policies in the wild. And by the time the problems surface, the originators are long gone to other public service jobs.
Nothing will change,"lessons will be learnt", and forgotten till the next time. This is the EU way of doing things, a little at a time and never go back. Do not panic the sheeple lest they bolt. That could cause BIG problems.
More on Evidence2Success - both sides of the pond....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/4899/Evidence2Success
http://www.aecf.org/MajorInitiatives/Evidence2Success/Partners.aspx
Hi Subrosa , you woke me from my plumbers with your post and I thought I would Bootle off in the hopes of finding the surveys ,or at least one of them, and there is an html version to be found here if the link works
ReplyDeletehttp://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Rbb_vv-R06wJ:www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx%3Fid%3D18257%26p%3D0+evidence2success+site:gov.uk&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
If that link doesn't work this one is a download
http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx%3Fid%3D18257%26p%3D0&sa=U&ei=O5QmUbLRLo2whAelcg&ved=0CEwQFjAG&sig2=5xzgJVQDpQt8qf1peCjEhQ&usg=AFQjCNGNSo4gWXYZcl_bh32i8iQEaTqYxQ
Methinks I may be having a late night as you have reminded me what fun Google is ;)
Excellent comment Apogee and certainly fits the Common Purpose ideology.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the links Sheila. I'll use them for another post for morning.
ReplyDeleteHi Elaine, many thanks. The first link worked fine. Will use it in the morning post.
ReplyDeleteA point of interest is that the faq's doc
ReplyDelete(Download) http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx%3Fid%3D18019%26p%3D0&sa=U&ei=q8ImUcPrHsnChAey1IHwAw&ved=0CFkQFjAJ&sig2=leIC4v_ebOubiWpxnLNCCA&usg=AFQjCNFZx7TQBqCntysCArm4Y_r9UdE1tg
published by PKC re the evidence2success surveys says that to comply with the data protection act no identifying details of individuals will be shared with the council and yet .... it states in the survey itself ,that I linked to in my last comment, that the pupils answers will be used along with information that the school and COUNCIL hold on the pupil.
The only way I can see of this being possible is if consent is being given to not only participate in the survey but also authorising access to information held on the pupil by the school and COUNCIL, which is a very very disturbing as nobody is actually consenting they are being given the opt out option ,as it says in the faq's this is an opt-out exercise if you don't opt-out then implies consent is assumed.
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There is a ongoing survey being carried out on all pregnant women and parents of children 0-8yrs of age that finishes next month... I haven't yet found that questionnaire ....
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PS apologies for the fact my spellchecker keeps changing my words I was quite surprised to see my slumbers had become my plumbers etc
I have written to Scotlands Information Commissioner and launched an investigation into all the same points as you have made. The other thing going on in our neck of the woods, west of perth is that in panic, they have started deleting childrens data at the parents request,but if they truly believe that the children gave freely given and informed consent, then the parent has no legal right to ask for the data to be deleted, it would have to be a request from the child (the participant) in writing.So as well as not gaining consent properly in the first place from either parents or participants, PKC are now breaking the DPA by deleting childrens data on the request of a third party (the parent). I have an email stating on what day they deleted my sons data at my request. They have paid lip service to Data Processing protocol and frankly do not even seem to understand what information they needed to provide to enable freely given informed consent from either the parents or kids.
ReplyDeleteI hope you get a good timely response from the information commissioner devora .
ReplyDeletethanks i think it will take time but if it works it could be worth the wait
ReplyDeletei have also written to the scottish commissioner for children and young people regarding the potential emotional harm done
i have sent a formal complaint to john fyffe that is now under investigation and i am talking to several seemingly?sympathetic msps
On monday hopefully there will be a piece in the courier re info commissioner. It is a releif to see that others feel as strongly about it..it is one of the worst pieces of intrusion into private homelife I have ever seen!!
This has reminded me of a thread I built just over two years ago on the home ed forums and my reasons for mentioning it here should start to become self explanatory from the second post
ReplyDeletehttp://www.home-education.biz/forum/general-discussion/12918-promethean.html
I don't know if Edinburgh uni or the nspcc are involved in evidence2success but it is worth reading the thread to help understand that this present intrusion into family life via our children is not a 'one off' .
Money is extremely tight at the moment but it seems that whenever some charity/ research body/ etc uses the words ' it's for the children' money appears from nowhere...well not quite it comes from the taxpayer usually.
That's the point I was making Elaine in the next post.
ReplyDeleteDevora, P & K is my council also and I was considering emailing them to place a formal complaint about this, even more so after the information you've provided.
ReplyDeleteDo let me know what response you receive and I'll put it in a post for others to see.
That's another gripe of mine Elaine, the cost. Nearly quarter of a million pounds. What are they thinking?
ReplyDeleteyes I think as many people as possible should write formally to both John Fyffe Education Director PKC and to Scotland's ICO
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/issues_paper_protecting_childrens_personal_information.pdf
this document from ICO highlights the dangers that could exist from profiling children for indications of future risky behaviour and of course whole populations, which is what PKC want to acheive..they want to show via potentially inaccurate and naive data supplied by 9/10yr olds that in 5 years time there is a liklihood that 30% of boys will be carrying a knife in a certain district of Perth. Evidence2Success as you know comes from America from the Annie E Casey Foundation and was as a concept developed by the uni of colorado after the Columbine shootings to predict likely future risky individuals. Its like PKC have gone mad..we are not currently living in an episode of the Wire..yes there are problems socially but these are deeprooted political issues linked to employment and housing policies and cannot be addressed by using what PKC and The Social Research Unit call "evidence", to refocus investment from areas of wellbeing (affluence) to areas of what PKC describe of areas of inequality. Nowhere on the parental consent form did it state that the focus of this survey would be Letham, but it states this clearly in the PKC Early Years Intervention Strategic Policy Meeting of 16th August 2012. I actually approve of refocusing money from where its not needed to where it is, but not on the basis of deception.
BTW
ReplyDeletethe £225000 was just the fee to consultants Social Research Unit...the rest £0000's would have been spent on supply teachers to implement this county wide within a defined timeframe
I have asked PKC to formally notify me of who/which agency staff they used for the door to door 0-8 surveys and on which date they checked/applied for and were granted PVG's to do this work
ReplyDeleteDevora they gave a brief explanation of the 0-8 selection process in one of the docs I hope they give a full one in response to your request because the one I read made no sense whatsoever .
ReplyDeleteMany thanks for all your information devora. Please keep me informed and I will write to Fyffe with a copy to the ICO.
ReplyDeleteI missed that Elaine. Maybe it's because I was looking for a copy of the relative questionnaire.
ReplyDeleteI just went to look for it and was reading this doc
ReplyDelete.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx%3Fid%3D12628%26p%3D0&sa=U&ei=J4MpUaH-OImyhAfsmIDACg&ved=0CD0QFjAD&sig2=r2DzX3Xha4CxNTvDPbjzIQ&usg=AFQjCNFDVGGtUGPyYoEgdg-M5fFLbp9C3A
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In the doc it says what a success evidence2success has been in America so I did a quick Google advanced search for evidence2success on American .gov sites
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http://www.google.co.uk/search?as_q=evidence2success&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=.gov&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=
.
Given the late hour I haven't delved far but I sure find it mighty strAnge that 2011/2012/2013 dominate....seems very young for a 'proven' anything doncha think ?
I do think Elaine ad will be doing another post on this shortly. Thanks for your efforts.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen front page courier today? PKC still banging on that 89% of parents consented to the survey, but if you do opt out consent, you can basically say what you like about the popularity or otherwise of a project because you have no documentary proof that a) consent form was ever received and read by the appropriate parent/carer and b) no explicit written yes to consent. Explicit consent is always recommended as best practice when handling children's or sensitive data to do with sexual activity or mental health.
ReplyDeletePKC have simply accepted what Dartington research have told them and have not introduced their own best practice protocols into the implementation of this intrusion into family life.
I've just read it devora. I'm drafting a letter to the council along with one to my MSP John Swinney with a copy to Pete Wishart. It's disgraceful.
ReplyDeleteAlso PKC have sent me a letter saying that they have appointed an employee independent of education to investigate my formal complaint and that he should report back to me within 15 days of when my complaint was received. That would be 3rd of March, so I am very unclear as to how exactly the Council know with certainty that they "have no intention of suspending the data or carrying out a review based on the innacurate claims of some opponents"....surely until they have investigated my formal complaint, they cannot know with certainty that my claims are innacurate.
ReplyDeleteYou don't think they have already made up their mind do you?????lol
http://dartington.org.uk/projects/realising-ambition/
ReplyDeleteanyone who can be bothered should listen to webinar 2 on this dartington social research site..it tells staff and outside charities how to target commissioners of large intervention projects..its basically a lesson in how to monetise social policy and it talks about laying on nice lunches/busing in primary school children to lay on a dummy lesson/getting inside the commissioners head/bla bla bla its like a manual for a product launch of a new shampoo not a programme of sensitive interventions for some of our most vulnerable people in society!! this is absolutely how the commissioner (john fyffe) of E2S in PKC was suckered in by the Social Research Unit. Lets hope he got more than sandwiches for his £225000 lunch!
Thank you devora. I'll put that in a wee post this coming week.
ReplyDeletehi
ReplyDeletejust to keep everyone up to speed I have just had confirmation that Social Research Unit Dartington in fact subcontracted the 8600 online pupil surveys to a "for profit" web design company based in devon called ITQ9
No parents or children were made aware that the data would be administered through this IT company and that data would be held at their facility.
It is still unclear at this stage as to whether SRU or ITQ9 are responsible for alerting PKC to any child protection issues and what CRB is in place at either of these establishments. 8600 pieces of the most sensitive personal data held at a company that PKC failed to inform parents of.
PKC are running a consultation 're their ten year 2013-2023 plan. The online summary and consultation questions (of which there are FOUR) can bday found here
ReplyDeletehttp://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1175168/Community-Plan-2013-23-Consultation
If you have a tendency to wonder if maybe there is more being proposed than the summary would lead one to believe then the full draft plan can be downloaded here
http://www.pkc.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=18366&p=0
How very Common Purpose isn't it Elaine? Thanks so much for this. I'll send it around friends.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/perth-kinross/bid-to-debate-controversial-evidence2success-school-survey-1.75800
ReplyDeletemore arrogant posturing from pkc,I am waiting for a report on my complaint and have been told that a two week investigation into my concerns will report about 20th march, so how can this councillor hear parental reaction yet still support the project..seems like he is prejudging the outcome of the investigation