tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post7135139934294051613..comments2023-08-10T12:55:23.427+01:00Comments on SUBROSA: Ainsworth Hurts the RAF and Navysubrosahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-5630454765701115822009-12-18T20:50:08.962+00:002009-12-18T20:50:08.962+00:00Thanks CD. Have a good weekend. :)Thanks CD. Have a good weekend. :)subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-1894285840161390242009-12-18T19:20:56.002+00:002009-12-18T19:20:56.002+00:00SR, We bit off more than we could chew, well the P...SR, We bit off more than we could chew, well the PM did and then through sheer vanity volunteered for Iraq. I just hope Bliar is impeached for war crimes. <br /><br />Anyway Ive said enough for now, perhaps!CrazyDaisyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17649222063383489990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-81167726019639258652009-12-18T09:14:21.751+00:002009-12-18T09:14:21.751+00:00Morning CD, I'm not too clued up on the US mil...Morning CD, I'm not too clued up on the US military these days as you can see.<br /><br />Our military have been pared down hard in the past 30 years though CD, a prime example being medical services.<br /><br />From where I sit the Navy and RAF have also been reduced, but I think that's because they're more expensive to maintain because of hardware costs. I could well be wrong.<br /><br />I see what you mean about Pakistan but how or why did we get into this.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-87539790655881686972009-12-18T07:18:42.755+00:002009-12-18T07:18:42.755+00:00SR, US has Navy, Army, AirForce and Marines as wel...SR, US has Navy, Army, AirForce and Marines as well as PSC like Blackwater and a whole force of civilian contractors to assist the rebuilding. We have similar capacity but on a smaller scale!<br /><br />The numbers of UK forces split down are constantly changing but the Army has the greater number due to it being a Land Campaign. However, they could not function without the other 2 Services doing their share. So although I see the point made above it's naive. We also have DFID, MoD Civil Servants, FCO, Nurses, Surgeons, Firemen, Linguists and we also employ LECs.<br /><br />It is multifaceted, seriously challenging and unlike anything we have undertaken in living memory. The fact is if we don't follow it through Pakistan may fall and we have over 1,000,000 living in this dis-United Kingdom. I don't like it anymore than u SR, a terrible waste of life.<br /><br />CDCrazyDaisyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17649222063383489990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-3334585796685635732009-12-17T15:22:13.218+00:002009-12-17T15:22:13.218+00:00Oh and another thing Strathturret, don't forge...Oh and another thing Strathturret, don't forget we're an island and a small one. We need sea, air and ground forces.<br /><br />Reorganisation may be required but I wouldn't like to see any of the three services done away with. It's bad enough Scotland has lost her separate regiments.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-15272842786745600162009-12-17T15:20:18.672+00:002009-12-17T15:20:18.672+00:00Two plus a much bigger Special Support Services I ...Two plus a much bigger Special Support Services I think Strathturret.<br /><br />Personally I wouldn't look to the US as a perfect example of a country's military. I have my doubts about their levels of training.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-32614507394434721362009-12-17T15:03:45.292+00:002009-12-17T15:03:45.292+00:00One little thought about our wonderful military. ...One little thought about our wonderful military. Why do we need three services when the mighty USofA manages with two? <br /> <br />Think of the mutitude of Generals, air vice-marshalls and admirals we seem to have commanding shinny Whitehall desks.<br /><br />Perhaps some reorganisation might be in order?Strathturrethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02824645626620377993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-27723350676671546722009-12-17T14:15:53.608+00:002009-12-17T14:15:53.608+00:00Auch CD, I knew the Navy provided front line staff...Auch CD, I knew the Navy provided front line staff and aviation. I think my point was, in terms of numbers the majority of military in Afghanistan are army and that's because of the terrain.<br /><br />I am slightly better informed and I feel slightly better for it. :)<br /><br />Snowing here too, quite heavily at times.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-11498347236369677212009-12-17T14:10:37.134+00:002009-12-17T14:10:37.134+00:00SR/Hammer,
You'll find the Royal Navy on the ...SR/Hammer,<br /><br />You'll find the Royal Navy on the front line, whether it's the Royal Marines as part of the Naval Service, T.23 Frigate in the Gulf, members of the RN in Logistic roles or part of a Tactical PSYOPS Team on the ground F2F. Our pilots and observers flying Merlin/Seaking helicopters or even Harriers, we're there. Not to mention our Communications people, our Doctors, Nurses and other medical staff running the Field Hospital.<br /><br />So pause for one marching pace and realise we're not "just" in a support role, everything is Joint these days and that includes the RAF, bless them.<br /><br />Hope you're now slightly better informed!<br /><br />CD<br /><br />ps.Snowing here!CrazyDaisyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17649222063383489990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-72582369842406246752009-12-17T11:43:20.078+00:002009-12-17T11:43:20.078+00:00That's it Strathturret, oil, the minerals and ...That's it Strathturret, oil, the minerals and the need to keep the poppy market moving. These are the reasons we're there and nothing to do with safety here.<br /><br />We're less safe here because of Iraq and Afghanistan don't you think?<br /><br />All the chat about a withdrawal timetable just the other week has now blown up in their faces. They intend to keep them there for years.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-71513208182864018002009-12-17T08:40:45.029+00:002009-12-17T08:40:45.029+00:00There was a good piece in Guardian the other day i...There was a good piece in Guardian the other day in favour of staying in Afghanistan.<br /><br />The author was saying that we needed to stay as it was strategically important, oil, pipelines, etc.<br /><br />I rather suspect there is good reason USA wants to stay in Afghanistan but we're being told lies about making our streets safer. Remember they have form - see Iraq.<br /><br />Perhaps the hot pursuit of Bin Laden in 2001 was a convenient smokescreen.<br /><br />Agreed we should get out now. I'd like to see SNP much more vocal. Buying these helicopters which will not be delivered for several years gives the game away.<br /><br />And finally the UK is bust and cannot afford this nonsense.Strathturrethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02824645626620377993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-39628864524317704222009-12-17T05:15:44.053+00:002009-12-17T05:15:44.053+00:00I think it's possibly less than that Hammer. ...I think it's possibly less than that Hammer. The majority of people don't like to even think about war or deaths. In fact many assume the military is composed of ex-convicts and those who can't get a job in civvie street.<br /><br />Of course, in today's military it's quite the opposite but the general public don't know that or aren't interested enough to find out.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-73040176521997538402009-12-17T05:10:19.843+00:002009-12-17T05:10:19.843+00:00It's not hard to understand why they aren'...It's not hard to understand why they aren't interested. Defence isn't an issue anymore thanks to the instant destruction caused by nuclear arms and the perpetual peace brought about by the EU. Realistically, no-one can attack us without the use of advanced rockets and bombers.<br /><br />Now the business is attack and as we've seen attacking is dirty, violent and unpopular, as 8 years of war have proven. A lot of people just want to get out of the war full stop and a lot of people just don't care. I'd estimate that less then 30% of the UK population actually want to see us finish what we started.Hammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035431208614358992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-84022902918854758372009-12-17T04:53:58.217+00:002009-12-17T04:53:58.217+00:00The problem with today's politicians though is...The problem with today's politicians though is they're just not interested in defence issues. I think the last one who was determined to learn was John Hutton but he stepped down.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-15019679054950603182009-12-17T03:37:35.008+00:002009-12-17T03:37:35.008+00:00Ah. That all makes sense. Like I said, I'm no ...Ah. That all makes sense. Like I said, I'm no engineer. Even in my hobby interests I prefer trains rather then planes ;) <br /><br />I'm not 100% comfortable with just former military leaders influencing the military but as long as it didn't lead to "planning for tomorrow by planning for today" style thinking, I'd be happy. Defence really should be a cross party interest in this day and age, not a tool of politicians.Hammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035431208614358992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-33033793761746458542009-12-17T03:19:51.414+00:002009-12-17T03:19:51.414+00:00It's not a design flaw Hammer, it's a cock...It's not a design flaw Hammer, it's a cock-up. The correct electronics weren't ordered so they weren't installed.<br /><br />Avionics can't be slotted in and out just like that. Connections need to be made to every part of the helicopter and that's why they need to be taken apart - to do that.<br /><br />If Cameron does get in Dannatt will have a lot to do with the review I hope.<br /><br />Thanks for the link, you're absolutely right!!subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-95534680045979782009-12-17T02:58:03.119+00:002009-12-17T02:58:03.119+00:00As far as the Chinooks and electronics go, it seem...As far as the Chinooks and electronics go, it seems (to my mind anyway) that having to take them apart to upgrade them is a design flaw. Surely they can be designed so equipment can be slotted in and out? Of course, I'm not an engineer and there are probably all sorts of problems with that kind of system. <br /><br />Regarding the review, I think the only politician who I'd actually trust to do it is Alan Clark, who had a reputation as both a playboy and a military historian. I believe that it was during his time as Armed Forces Minister that Britain had it's last effective armed forces review, which was cut short by the Gulf War. Sadly, he passed away in the late 90s.<br /><br />I thought you might like a picture of Mr Sheard (I misspelt his name in my previous post). I'm sure you'll see a resemblance between this PR shot and the shot of Mr Ainsworth above: http://www.grangehillfans.co.uk/history/images/bronson.jpgHammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035431208614358992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-71941919575562242062009-12-17T02:44:07.305+00:002009-12-17T02:44:07.305+00:00I haven't noticed Hammer, but I expect others ...I haven't noticed Hammer, but I expect others have. You would notice though, being into things like that. :)subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-89201791095937798062009-12-17T02:41:51.110+00:002009-12-17T02:41:51.110+00:00Hammer, Crazy Daisy is better placed to speak abou...Hammer, Crazy Daisy is better placed to speak about the Naval side of things.<br /><br />The Nimrods have been spoken about for years and nothing has transpired.<br /><br />There are Chinooks available but they don't have the avionics needed in today's climate and I understand to fit the proper equipment require them to be taken apart. You can understand that with today's modern electronics Hammer.<br /><br />The loss of jobs is vast. I wonder how many will be voluntary redundancies/retirements.<br /><br />I too want rid of Trident, we'll never use it anyway. You're right, America holds the keys for it so we're just being used as a storage centre.<br /><br />So much as been said about the review after the GE but as you say, I doubt if much reorganisation will happen. Some regiments have kept up with the times though but the civil service is so primitive isn't it.<br /><br />Cameron won't make a difference. He's just a clone of Tony Blair sadly. Even most tories know that.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-42282205890727304462009-12-17T02:34:48.177+00:002009-12-17T02:34:48.177+00:00Incidentally, has anyone noticed the similarity be...Incidentally, has anyone noticed the similarity between Bob Ainsworth and actor Michael Sheer (aka Mr Bronson in Grange Hill, Hitler in the Indiana Jones movies).Hammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035431208614358992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-7154006362761006072009-12-17T02:33:26.102+00:002009-12-17T02:33:26.102+00:00It is an insult to staff right enough HP. Only a ...It is an insult to staff right enough HP. Only a bad manager talks down his staff.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-5191382835787820522009-12-17T02:32:34.804+00:002009-12-17T02:32:34.804+00:00The minesweeper seems like a strange loss. I have ...The minesweeper seems like a strange loss. I have to wonder, however, the degree to which mines figure in modern naval strategy. Aside from fighting pirates, the Navy seem to spend their time today functioning in a support role, often from long distance. <br />It's almost certainly a better decision to mothball a minesweeper then cancel a new destroyer or withdraw RFA ships. <br /><br />Loosing the survey ship is daft. I'm sure the navy could probably coax some money from universities and scientific bodies to keep it at work. No doubt it provides valuable data all round. <br /><br />The Nimrod fleet is long overdue replacement. This, obviously, brings that no closer. <br /><br />Chinooks seems a strange purchase given how many problems they've had in service with British forces. Surely having had problems we should be looking at alternatives?<br /><br />10,000 jobs (civil service and bases) is going to make a dent in the employment figures. <br /><br />I'm 100% behind scrapping Trident, and indeed, most of the submarine fleet. It's just a drain on resources in this day and age, and as the Sunday Herald reported a few weeks ago, we rely on America to provide key components which need to be regularly replaced - no doubt at considerable cost. <br /><br />I suspect what the army really needs is a full scale re-evaluation of all forces and resources, carried out by military professionals alongside civil servants and ministers with a good knowledge of the military. Ideally conducted in peace time, when the forces aren't facing changing threats.<br /><br />Of course, the chance of that happen is nil. With the Tories planning cuts to public sector, I doubt increased armed forces funding will be a priority. Cameron is going to get himself into a very tricky situation.Hammerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035431208614358992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-52107134819916233382009-12-16T19:47:21.768+00:002009-12-16T19:47:21.768+00:00Dram, serious injuries involve loss of limbs. Men...Dram, serious injuries involve loss of limbs. Mental health problems are not included so those who are affected are ignored.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-89586096920389556522009-12-16T19:46:07.760+00:002009-12-16T19:46:07.760+00:00Oh QM, I do wish our respective people would waken...Oh QM, I do wish our respective people would waken up.<br /><br />I understand why my generation don't speak out loudly because they feel the whole of the British Isles has disintegrated. Few feel they have the energy and also think they're not respected.<br /><br />If you watched the Gerry Robinson programme last night perhaps you understand why so many are just wanting to slip into oblivion. A tragedy and no other country treats (or charges) their elderly in that way.subrosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00151702590329788260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8116690042850060767.post-83059681535454493372009-12-16T19:12:57.501+00:002009-12-16T19:12:57.501+00:00what really rankles me is the lack of honesty. the...what really rankles me is the lack of honesty. the government has made a mess of procurement this entire decade, and as a country we are skint. there are issues over a country over spending (ie a small island being a superpower) but thats another debate.<br /><br />so its annoying to hear ainsworth saying that there are "4 people doing the same job" and dobling and trebling of work.<br /><br />its just talking down the hardworking staff and frankly its an insultHolyrood Patterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00011279364711982978noreply@blogger.com